Mastodawn

wobweger Jan 8, 2023

“Seattle city school district filed a novel lawsuit blaming #BigTech for poisoning youth with social media addiction, saying schools can’t fulfill their educational mission while students are suffering from anxiety, depression and other psychological troubles.

#Alphabet Inc., #Meta Platforms Inc., #Snap Inc. and #ByteDance Ltd., owner of #TikTok, are responsible for hooking young people on their platforms and creating a mental health crisis, according to the complaint”

https://www.inkl.com/a/ZommJnURLnR

Seattle Schools Sue Big Tech Over Youth Mental Health Crisis

The Seattle city school district filed a novel lawsuit blaming Big Tech for poisoning youth with social media addiction, saying the schools can’t fulfill their educational mission while students are suffering from anxiety, depression and other psychological troubles.

inkl

TransitBiker Jan 8, 2023

@aral shots across the bow.

Maciej J. Hajduk

@aral
We all should do that, Facebook, Insta, and Twitter have done more destruction in our society than anything else. They should pay bilions to fix this now.

Aral Balkan Jan 8, 2023

@mjh Paying billions would just be a cost of doing business and legitimise their business model. “Punishable by fine” just means “legal for the rich” as the saying goes. The solution to this is to outlaw their business model (what I call “people farming”).

#peopleFarming #surveillanceCapitalism #BigTech #SiliconValley

Maciej J. Hajduk

@aral
I was rather thinking of getting all their money. But I'm also sure this should be closed and prohibited in future

@aral Ironic… Seattle and big tech!

Cassandrich Jan 8, 2023

@aral This is true but the establishment will attempt to surveil and punish children/youth and restrict their access to knowledge rather than banning the toxic sewage hose algorithms regardless of the age of the user like they should.

Max Anderlitschka Jan 8, 2023

@aral I sympathies with all parents incl. myself having Samir issues, but where do you draw the line between responsibility of oneself and the offerer of a product? What about the gaming industry that sucks people into addiction? What about bad food being produced that you consume (example sugar). We have to be responsible for ourselves. I do agree that these algorithms are bad and should be changed, but it is not only Social Media that sucks us into bad habits

Aral Balkan Jan 8, 2023

@Manderli Indeed, this is why we always check the food we buy at the store isn’t toxic and why we have to teach our kids they shouldn’t listen to the smoking ads they see during cartoons. Oh, wait, no, we have regulations that protect us from such things.

We already live in a world where corporate greed is decimating our habitat and gross systemic inequality has left whatever remains of the social contact in tatters. We should welcome any attempt, however small, to right the scales of justice.

Max Anderlitschka Jan 8, 2023

@aral I understand your passion and I sympathize with you dislike of big corp. social media that is why I’m here and my kids do not get Facebook & Co on their devices. It is also my duty as a parent to expose them to this unmonitored when they are ready for this and not before they can deal with it. Kids need to learn how to deal social media and understand the mechanisms. I wonder what we should not sue these days because of wrong usage. I fully accept your view though!

Mr. Teatime Jan 12, 2023

@aral
The question makes sense, though: What is the test to determine if something should be outlawed, modified, limited to certain ages, carry a mandatory warning (of what size?), is totally fine?

I find it too hard to avoid fat and sugar when buying food, but absolutely welcome efforts to legalize weed, shrooms and MDMA, and decriminalize heroine and cocaine/crack.

Without objective criteria that are independent of what *I* get mad about, that seems kinda random to most people.
@Manderli

Mr. Teatime Jan 12, 2023

@aral
...and I think particularly in the online "platform" realm, those criteria are extra hard to develop because there's no substance to test, the effects depend on scale, and new stuff haooens way faster than regulators can figure it out (if they ever...)

But while I'd be happy to see MS, Googe, Amazon & co burn ... "people like it too much" was a bad argument against weed back when, and it's a bad one now.
"'pay with your data' is an unethical business model" -- much better!
@Manderli

Mr. Teatime Jan 12, 2023

@aral
...but that wouldn't address the issue of people getting sucked into social media, spending more time than they should on it and developing psychological problems. Hell, for all I know that can and does happen with Mastodon, too!

So, how to address that? I think personal resilience has a big part to play there, but we can't rely on just that. I'm not sure what else it takes, but I'm pretty sure that outlawing social media would make it worse.
@Manderli

Max Anderlitschka Jan 12, 2023

@Mr_Teatime @aral I agree to a lot of your arguments. I think it is a matter of personal preference. Governmental regulation or liberalism. I love to take my own conscious decisions about what I use and what I don’t & I love to give this freedom to my kids including the tools to take conscious decisions. The question is what needs to be forbidden for the sake of society. But it is a delicate line between freedom of choice & legislation telling you what to do.

Mr. Teatime Jan 13, 2023

@Manderli
...and it's not really a binary decision, or a 1D scale, either.
Everything you permit with "people know what they're doing" requires people to actually understand the topic at hand, and have the necessary information. Everything you forbid assumes that either they don't or that no sane person would do it if they knew enough -- which is also almost never quite true.

I think one way to reduce that tension is open, independent and verifiable tests/analyses, and clear labelling.

Mr. Teatime Jan 13, 2023

@Manderli
... back to the topic of social media: the GDPR tried to introduce clear labelling but most providers sabotage that, ofc.

Outlawing social media is never going to work, but outlawing "pay with your data" actually makes sense: it's never technically necessary, the drawbacks are very long-term (like smoking, the worst consequences happen years later), and it's in crass contradiction to democratic values and personal autonomy, thus dangerous to society.
@aral

Mr. Teatime Jan 13, 2023

@Manderli
In that sense, regulation should be a lot like food safety: we don't outlaw ice cream, but there are strict rules to avoid salmonella problems. And if you sellal drinks containing methanol, you have a problem.

What I wish for in food as well as online: *good* and healthy things should be easier to find and cheaper to buy -- they should be the default. And that's possible without making peanut butter chocolate bars hard to get.

...also, I talk too much. will shut up now.
@aral

Roz Derors Jan 8, 2023

@aral Kinda like selling cigarettes on television huh?

Charlie Jan 8, 2023

@aral eigenlijk zijn de social media platformen een soort pushers van extreme stereotypen geworden; hoe kun je kinderen “wapenen” tegen al die invloeden? Het simpelweg verbieden werkt niet (kijken ze bij anderen).

stevegio Jan 8, 2023

@aral My wife, a teacher, wholeheartedly agrees with this action. A lot of kids are a mess these days because of social media. She contends the pandemic alone can’t account for the levels of anxiety in kids today.

Autolycus 🏴‍☠️Jan 8, 2023

@aral While I agree that social media, for the most part, is contemptible, this doesn't seem like a solution. This feels like our generation's version of the Judas Priest subliminal message lawsuit.

Our schools rely on a system of teaching established in the 1800s. Schools themselves refuse to modernize and likewise cause children anxiety, depression, and other psychological troubles. It seems they're throwing stones in a glass house.