Franck LeroyLuke Dash, one core developers of Bitcoin just got all his Bitcoins stolen.
But let's pretend anyone can safely store their life savings in crypto.
It was stored on a cold wallet.
He lost everything: $3.5 million.
Let 2023 be the final death of this giant scam.
He lost everything: $3.5 million.
Let 2023 be the final death of this giant scam.
Jorge StolfiStealing Luke's private key was the first task that the soul of Pope Benedict set to do after taking up his post in the hierarchy of Hell. As a personal revenge for Luke's strident denial of his legitimacy.
@JorgeStolfi This hacking does indeed bear the mark of the revenge of the pedo satanist elite.
MozzieBytes 𓆤 ☸️ 😷@JorgeStolfi @FranckLeroy. And there I was thinking Darth Vader was Luke's legitimate Father.
bumi@FranckLeroy it was not a cold storage (as keys have been saved somewhere digitally - and thus could be stolen)
and second: how do you know that's true? or maybe just a "boating accident"?
@bumi We don't know.
he would risk the FUD on the project he works on ?
Anyway, if it's true. This proves than even the core devs can't keep it safe. It can't be adopted by the masses.
putting your life saving such an insecure asset in completely nuts.
@FranckLeroy I guess the project does not care. it might feed some people with hashtag CryptoSkeptic in their profiles ;) but actually not more.
using examples of individual errors do not proof anything.
isn't it like saying we can not do digital things because [some super big secure company/institution] was hacked?
and his setup might be insecure but not the asset.
@FranckLeroy
the one side uses these examples to say everything is bad...the other side uses some other positive examples to say everything is perfect.
equally nonsensical and only to push one's opinion/agenda.
@bumi You should quit your denial here :
- millions just lost everything on FTX
- 80% of crypto investors are at loss
- defi is hacked weekly
- even the core developers lose their Bitcoin savings in cold wallets
This is time we put an end to this giant scam.
@FranckLeroy those are very unrelated.
many stock investors or saving accounts are in loss.isn’t it good if assets don’t always appreciate against another asset?
FTX is just a company - their problem was actually that they did not have bitcoin.
DeFi is also not Bitcoin(and much bullshit)
mistakes of a famous person do not affect me,don’t mean anything.
and why do you care actually? nobody forces you to join that thing if you don’t like it.
that’s fine, that’s how it should be.
@bumi exchange platforms are part of Bitcoin core : they enable it to work somehow because it does not scale properly. Any failure of an exchange platform is a failure of the whole bitcoin project. TBH I first cared much about the insane environmental impact before I discovered how this space was filled with scam and crushing thousands of lives. that's a disaster.
@FranckLeroy can you elaborate about this?
That's like saying the internet is all a failure because of Twitter and Facebook having bad data privacy or something like that.
it has nothing to do with it.
Also when you use the word "scaling" - scaling for what and it what sense?
if you refer to those companies that scam: those are still companies? It's like hating on email because of some spammers.
spam is a problem, scam is a problem but that's unrelated of the underlaying system
@bumi all the problems of bitcoin derive from :
- shitty ideology
- shitty design
https://medium.com/crypto-lucid/decentralized-trustless-debunking-bitcoins-biggest-myth-8ea8a27197e2
- shitty ideology
- shitty design
https://medium.com/crypto-lucid/decentralized-trustless-debunking-bitcoins-biggest-myth-8ea8a27197e2
@FranckLeroy ok, seems impossible to have a productive conversation with you. :(
Goobermunch@FranckLeroy @bumi I can see one common thread linking them…
@goobermunch @FranckLeroy then either that's just what you want to see, or you don't look closely enough. ;)
@bumi bitcoin is insecure by design.
No accountability = you lose everything and noone is responsible
Immutable means = you cannot reverse error / fraud.
This whole blockchain thing is stupid as fuck.
No accountability = you lose everything and noone is responsible
Immutable means = you cannot reverse error / fraud.
This whole blockchain thing is stupid as fuck.
@FranckLeroy don’t use it you don’t trust yourself.
or trust a company to hold it for you - and they are accountable just as any other company that hold other assets for you (e.g. gold, securities, etc.) - the asset does not matter there.
how do you explain fraud with other assets/systems?
do you just throw every random half-baked argument at something here?
@FranckLeroy and for me for example it’s a feature that I can’t hold anybody accountable… it means also I don’t need to trust or rely on anybody.
maybe this is not for everybody, but this does not mean the underlaying asset/network is bad.
still wondering why you even care?
@bumi "it means also I don’t need to trust or rely on anybody."
This whole libertarian spirit is lovely.
@FranckLeroy you really throw all the random words and arguments and mix them up in some toot.
maybe let's stick to something specific? otherwise it will be hard to have a productive conversation I guess.
maybe let's stick to something specific? otherwise it will be hard to have a productive conversation I guess.
RAOF@bumi @FranckLeroy the special trick with Bitcoin is not that it makes the act of fraud or theft easier; it's that it makes any fraud or theft irreversible.
Thus, getting away with the money is much easier, and so much more attractive.
@RAOF @bumi Also it enabled a multi billion dollar industry of ransomwares to flourish, puttingl key infrastructures (like hospitals!) at risk.
@FranckLeroy @RAOF that's a problem, generally IT security is a problem and with greater use and reliance on digital systems those are attacked. generally cyber crime and attacks have been growing a lot in the recent years.
we need to make sure that hospitals and such have resources to not run on windows98 anymore.
we need to make sure that hospitals and such have resources to not run on windows98 anymore.
@bumi @FranckLeroy No.
Some technologies enable new businesses to exist; this should be uncontroversial.
Bitcoin (and, more generally, cryptocurrencies) have enabled the ransomware “business” to exist.
Computer security could and should be better, but the business model of ransomware requires a way to do high-volume pseudonymous trans-national money transfers.
Without a reliable way of turning a compromise into a payday there would be much less ransomware, and it would be from different sources¹. Much like the way that it is ridiculously easy to break into your home, but we don't have a huge burglary problem because turning home access into cash is difficult and unscalable.
¹: Nation-state industrial sabotage, competitor sabotage, etc
@RAOF yes. as we are able to transfer value digitally, globally we face issues like this. which are made easier. like in your burglary example, maybe we start with not leaving the door open also there using better locks (no win98 anylonger) and protect our stuff (backups etc.)
it’s not that without it or before we did not see any cybercrime (email spam/scam?)
and for me it’s like with any privacy: should we abandon privacy because crime happens? or do we see value in it?
Pronoic@RAOF @bumi @FranckLeroy you could just as easily say that Bitcoin is forcing entities to invest in their own security infrastructure. It may enable scams, but it also forces good security practices that were ignored for far too long.
@FranckLeroy @pronoic @RAOF Godwin’s law becoming quickly true here.
useless conversation with you throwing such insults around. 👋
@FranckLeroy @pronoic @RAOF not at all. but let’s be honest here: you don’t want to hear my BS and I don’t want to hear yours.
you do your stuff, I do mine and everybody is happy.
you do your stuff, I do mine and everybody is happy.
@FranckLeroy @bumi @RAOF Bitcoin is to cybercrime what ___ is to rape. You should be able to finish this simple logic problem.
@FranckLeroy @RAOF @bumi that's a bit crass don't you think? In your poor comparison bitcoin is the motivation for cybercrime, and ??? is the motivation for rape?
Micah Warren@bumi @FranckLeroy Fundamental Attribution Error to the rescue
levampyreThe main reason we cannot widely embrace and adopt crypto currency is this: It repeats capitalism as it is based on a philosophy of exploitation. It repeats the tall story of endless growth on limited resources, depleting the planet, destroying its life.
This can't be humanity's way forward.
@levampyre @FranckLeroy bitcoin is the best degrowth strategy that we have in my opinion. the endless growth problem comes from an endless expansive monetary policy. the unit we save and transact in can not endlessly grow while having limited resources on the planet.
50years ago we wrongly chose a different path there which accelerated, and hard to reverse because we all rely on it now and have some interest there.
50years ago we wrongly chose a different path there which accelerated, and hard to reverse because we all rely on it now and have some interest there.
@bumi @levampyre
No.
Crypto currency is a libertarian dream : killing the state in favor of a world ruled by pure market, without taxes / limitations / regulations.
Bitcoin is based on the same rotten values than capitalism : greed, competition, waste.
Most crypto brois are here to get rich, not degrowth.
Any system compatible with capitalism is not revolutionary : it worsens it.
@FranckLeroy @levampyre has nothing to do with killing the state or the state in general. far from it.
taxation is useless when we allow private corporations to cheaply print money. so that must be fixed otherwise the underlaying incentives are wrong.
how we do that is the interesting question.
but like everywhere there are extrem people on that side and on the other side - focussing on those is misleading and misses the point.
@bumi @levampyre Taxation was fine during the 20th century, USA had tax levels up to > 90% for the richests by then.
Since then, we've let billionaires get more and more rich and rule the world. States could split those large companies with anti-trust laws and get them for pay fair taxes.
No technology will solve this. That's a political question.
@FranckLeroy @levampyre yes, because money was not unlimited printed back then. this changed in the ‘71.
They get more and more rich (and thus powerful) by printed money. (Cantillion effect) - if you already got lots of assets(e.g. houses) you get cheap credits (of freshly printed money by the bank)
assets (owned by the wealthy ones) always appreciate in value first by increased money supply.
yes, technology is never a sole solution.
@FranckLeroy @levampyre but with your choice of words and insults here we can not talk. unproductive, emotional insults.
@bumi @levampyre Indeed, soory about that, I'll try to behave.
@FranckLeroy @bumi I'm totally with you there, Frank. I just have to take a look at the crypto bros to know, this is not the society I want to live in. These are not my values.
@bumi @levampyre Capitalism will never sataisfay from a limited supply of money. The economic system drives the monetary one, not the other way around.
It will reinvent additional layers of finance / fractional reserves on top of it .. it already did.
It will reinvent additional layers of finance / fractional reserves on top of it .. it already did.
@bumi @levampyre Do you realize how it is the exact opposite of Bitcoin ??
Proof of Waste consider energy and devices as infinite resources that we could burn for the sole purpose of validating transactions ! It totally ignores the physical limits of this world.
@FranckLeroy @levampyre the opposite, it exactly embrases the physical limits needed and connects it to the digital world. if it would be considered infinite it would not work.
.
.
@bumi @levampyre Bitcoin currently negates the CO2 savings of all electric cars on earth !
The surge of ASIC devices also played a key role in shortage of silicium last year.
Bitcoin is the first invention in human history to be designed to be *resistant* to any future technological progress. That's just insane and the exact opposite of what we need.
pinky.@FranckLeroy do you believe everything you read on the internet?
@pinky I believe that whether he says the truth or not, this affects (a lot) the tale of Bitcoin being a "safe" store of value and the mojo: "your keys, your coins".
@FranckLeroy he confirms that Bitcoin was not compromised though. His keys were compromised, which is always a risk. Securing keys is the most critical part of opFinTech. "your keys. Your coins" relies on having a reliable opsFinTech plan. I hope he shares details as he learns where his plan fell apart.
@pinky
Bitcoin *was* not compromised.
Bitcoin *is* the compromission. It is insecure by design, because you can't expect random people master infosec (and not lose / forget their keys).
Immutability is not a feature, it's a bug / a core design flaw.
Bitcoin *was* not compromised.
Bitcoin *is* the compromission. It is insecure by design, because you can't expect random people master infosec (and not lose / forget their keys).
Immutability is not a feature, it's a bug / a core design flaw.
@FranckLeroy I disagree. This is a feature of a zero trust system. I agree that we're in early stage still where the complexity of owning crypto is high (e.g.one must understand the security risk & take measures accordingly). That doesn't mean the technology is doomed or even flawed. See also: electricity and computers.
Mats Henricson@FranckLeroy How would it be a scam? Please enlighten us!
Aglaia89 🏳️⚧️@FranckLeroy Bitcoin is not save. You can lost your Key, use a weak seed or even have a collision of your keys.
There is even a big project that tries to find keys to walles and found them by "mining" (Large Bitcoin Collider)
@FranckLeroy it looks like his computer/ server was hacked some time ago https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-core-developer-claims-to-have-lost-200-btc-in-hack/amp
Dr. ir. Brian R. Pauw@FranckLeroy so they vociferously advocated in favor of decentralization and no governments, but when the shit hits the fan, they go crying to the FBI?