Neal Parikh
Molly Whitei feel like i might question my chosen industry just a little bit if i found myself having to write an article like this
GregS_NYC 
@molly0xfff if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, don't try to convince me it's not a duck sometimes.
Alex RudolphSame energy
Cranky David@molly0xfff
"why are there so many ducks around me?"
"why are there so many ducks around me?"
Mᴀʀᴋ VᴀɴᴅᴇWᴇᴛᴛᴇʀɪɴɢ@molly0xfff It is sometimes said that only liars need to say "I'm not lying." It would appear a similar dynamic may be at play with crypto/Ponzi schemes.
Tony Kennick@molly0xfff
My "Why cripto isn't a Ponzi scheme" t-shirt is causing people ask questions already answered by my t-shirt.
Or please see Lady Macbeth
Spike 
@molly0xfff Christopher Robbins needs to get out of the Five Acre Wood once in a while so he can read the room, rather than listening to advice from his good friend Pooh, who is just trying to fill his honey barrel.
ice.cream.assassin@molly0xfff My "crypto is not a scam" t-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by the shirt.
ProjectAzar 
@molly0xfff These headlines would be enhanced with a well placed "just." They probably wouldn't need to alter the text of the articles much either.
Crypto is not "just" a ponzi scheme...
Because it's all scams and schemes at once!
Dan Sugalski@molly0xfff When your followup has to be "sometime's it's a pump-and-dump, other times it's a rugpull scheme, and then there are the ones that are just fraud -- so clearly the label 'Ponzi' unfairly tars the whole industry!" well... yeah, time for a new job.
Hugo Slabbert ⚠️@molly0xfff "What you're referring to as a Ponzi scheme is really just a technology that is incredibly well suited to facilitating Ponzi schemes and others scams. So that's obviously ridiculous!"
Doctor M. Popular@molly0xfff he's right though. Crypto is a Satoshi Scheme, which is far worse than traditional Ponzi Schemes. Satoshi Schemes will probably make Ponzi Schemes obsolete in a few years.
SigmundFrood@molly0xfff I’m pretty sure it’s not a Ponzi scheme. It looks more like an MLM scam to me.
Xlc@molly0xfff it's an inverted funnel
Karl Heinz Häsliprinz@molly0xfff Ponzi Schemes will occur in any system of property that normalizes the idea of passive returns.
Either forget passive returns or do scrappy regulatory patchwork to prevent Ponzis (which crypto prides itself of being unable to do)
Either forget passive returns or do scrappy regulatory patchwork to prevent Ponzis (which crypto prides itself of being unable to do)
Jon Kuperman@molly0xfff I had to read that second one like three times lol
algi@molly0xfff What is the scam scheme called when I tell you I sell you something, but then you pay and you get no product?
husbandpanda 🐼@molly0xfff Lol, article summed up as : "tell me it's a ponzi without telling me a ponzi." I guess people have about as much #journalistic #integrity in #crypto articles as the do for *most* anywhere else in journalism, sadly.
Albert ARIBAUD Ⓜ@molly0xfff They're right tho: not all crypto are Ponzi schemes, because some of them die in horrible technical train wrecks before they can actually become any scheme at all.
geo_bot@molly0xfff I've written a couple of papers on this. Cryptocurrencies aren't *inherently* a ponzi-scheme but anyone who is trying to get you to invest is scamming you. It's meant to be currency not stocks. You are supposed to buy things not horde it until the price peaks. A lot of the companies say they can't go wrong because of cryptocurrencies' roots in cryptography and it's decentralized design, but that design doesn't carry over to the exchanges. In fact the exchanges are trying to undermine the decentralization by controlling your cryptocurrencies
They are taking advantage of modern ideas of tech to make a market out of a system not designed for it. There are no protections in the protocols against the system going crazy or falling apart.
This investment idea is a bubble, when the scammers loose their money, the crypto-bros snap out of it, and the bubble bursts, the people who actually want the decentralized future can get to fixing this disaster and sending us on our way to Satoshi Nakamoto's crypto-anarchist utopia
and NTFs...no
They are taking advantage of modern ideas of tech to make a market out of a system not designed for it. There are no protections in the protocols against the system going crazy or falling apart.
This investment idea is a bubble, when the scammers loose their money, the crypto-bros snap out of it, and the bubble bursts, the people who actually want the decentralized future can get to fixing this disaster and sending us on our way to Satoshi Nakamoto's crypto-anarchist utopia
and NTFs...no
evolbug@geo_bot not sure what kind of papers you're writing, but the simple fact that all of the "currencies" are deflationary/limited supply make them inherently a ponzi scheme asset and not a currency. Follow that up with the typical process where early participants (pretty much always the network bootstrappers) have an easy time gathering low value units with no contest, that are increased in value by latecomers. This is before you even get to the sophisticated junk everyone peddles.
@evolbug @molly0xfff well, their position as an asset is the bubble. The also aren't of exclusively limited supply because a big part of the verification system is creating more currency to have inflation (Bitcoin's implementation has a problem with that but that's among the many things that made others exist.) And most of the protocols that aren't trying to scam you, which is most, are actively trying to combat the pricing problems and crypto-bros messing with it. The rapid changes in prices and attempts to control it are considered very bad things by the designers of the protocols because it is antithetical to the goal of making a functioning currency. This is why Ethereum switched to proof of stake which is much less susceptible to super computer miners taking all of the coins even though it caused a crash. this is why Monero's mining algorithms are CPU bound allowing many more miners with just a small computer to be highly competitive.
Also buying the coins with physical money isn't supported by the protocol, it's garbage that was hastily thrown on top to make money. It is intended to go in more directions than user and exchange, you are supposed to hold them privately with data on your devices and trade them with merchants and/or individuals for goods and services. If you read the original Bitcoin paper, he explains why he wants it done like that and why the traditional way is messy. He takes every opportunity to explain why the design supports that vision. Anyone who gives any other purpose is a swindler or has been swindled.
The exchanges are just banks in a system that is trying to fight banks. You are supposed to be able to get the cryptocurrency by selling goods or services and/or by working and/or through helping the whole network exist via mining. The problem is that we don't live in that world
Also buying the coins with physical money isn't supported by the protocol, it's garbage that was hastily thrown on top to make money. It is intended to go in more directions than user and exchange, you are supposed to hold them privately with data on your devices and trade them with merchants and/or individuals for goods and services. If you read the original Bitcoin paper, he explains why he wants it done like that and why the traditional way is messy. He takes every opportunity to explain why the design supports that vision. Anyone who gives any other purpose is a swindler or has been swindled.
The exchanges are just banks in a system that is trying to fight banks. You are supposed to be able to get the cryptocurrency by selling goods or services and/or by working and/or through helping the whole network exist via mining. The problem is that we don't live in that world
@geo_bot @molly0xfff there is the idea that was once written on paper in 2009, and then there is the reality we saw in practice of every single variant that exists to this date including the original launched by Satoshi himself. Let's not kid ourselves, the excuses are just wishful thinking not based on any reality we have seen and dealt with since its first implementation which pretty quickly showed that as designed it doesn't do what it's "supposed" to.
@geo_bot @molly0xfff
Proof of stake also just exchanged one problem for another, the network control is still held by rich people making themselves richer due to its speculative design rooted in deflationary mechanics throughout the stack. I don't think you understand how massive of an impact that one feature has on the entire use model. Currencies are meant to have value-reducing inflation to prevent exactly the situation we see here due to inherent features that make rich users even richer.
Proof of stake also just exchanged one problem for another, the network control is still held by rich people making themselves richer due to its speculative design rooted in deflationary mechanics throughout the stack. I don't think you understand how massive of an impact that one feature has on the entire use model. Currencies are meant to have value-reducing inflation to prevent exactly the situation we see here due to inherent features that make rich users even richer.
I have followed bitcoin since its inception, read the original paper, saw the fallout and wild attempts at "fixing" the problems. None of the implementations make any kind of technical sense for something that's supposed to resemble a "currency" to me, it has never made sense really. You can talk all about what the shills tell you it's "supposed" to do, but it's just another delusion, there is nothing there but a ponzi speculation, there never was anything else.
@geo_bot @molly0xfff you also fundamentally misunderstood the core part of the bitcoin implementation
> The also aren't of exclusively limited supply because a big part of the verification system is creating more currency to have inflation
the supply is explicitly limited to 21 million bitcoin. Coin creation is there just to provide participation incentive, but the difficulty of that rises with the rewards becoming smaller until zero (exc fees), this also means the reward _must_ be worth more
@geo_bot @molly0xfff this is also inherently deflationary, value _must_ rise due to this design, or you cannot keep supporting the network with the ever increasing resource requirements. proof of stake can also exist _only and only after_ an IPO or a POW run where the ~~elite~~, excuse me, main miners are established with the most "currency" so they can continue with staking
@geo_bot @molly0xfff i could dissect you the claims and implementations and prove to you why each of them are wrong or make no sense in practice, using basic economic knowledge and my dev experience, but i just don't have infinite time. I've followed cryptocurrencies for a decade and i'm tired of the swindling. No more. None of this is it.
MacCruiskeen
Roy Wiggins@molly0xfff "no no no, it's not a ponzi scheme, they're just inherently worthless ledger entries- like trading penny stocks! wait, shit"
@molly0xfff "it's more of a ponzi platform than a ponzi scheme"
Mike Farley 
@molly0xfff not JUST a Ponzi scheme
Lily Star@molly0xfff USD isn't a scam, but it is the number one choice for scammers. Ponzi schemes were literally invented for USD.
But tell me more about how crypto itself is the problem, and not the people abusing it.
But tell me more about how crypto itself is the problem, and not the people abusing it.
Joe Dowland@starlily @molly0xfff crypto may not itself be a scam, but all of the "benefits" of it inherently make it super easy to use as a scam
anticrisis@starlily @molly0xfff If you regulate "crypto" to the same extent as USD, then your point would stand: people abusing it are the problem, and they should be caught, prosecuted, and victims compensated. But "crypto" also means "lawless" for most of its boosters. So that's the scam.
@anticrisis @molly0xfff Sounds like USD 100 years ago, when Charles Ponzi was doing his business. We know what happened next; the Depression resulted in a lot more regulations on USD.
Seems like the same thing is coming for cryptocurrency, to me.
Seems like the same thing is coming for cryptocurrency, to me.
jec&@molly0xfff Oh, Chris.
GayPunkRock 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️@molly0xfff especially multiple 🙄
Brad@molly0xfff The Ponzi doth protest too much, methinks.
mike@molly0xfff Imagine the conversations when people were trying to convince others that “currency” has just as much value as a sack of grain.
Daniel Jonsson@molly0xfff I like crypto, but this is funny
Roger Moore@molly0xfff
It's only a Ponzi scheme if it comes from the Ponzi region; otherwise it's just sparkling fraud.
It's only a Ponzi scheme if it comes from the Ponzi region; otherwise it's just sparkling fraud.
Egg@molly0xfff wonder how much crypto they invested in after this in-depth coverage
Lizard@molly0xfff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_YUUMzr54
"It is not a pryamid, it is a triangle. And it is not a scheme, it is an opportunity."
"It is not a pryamid, it is a triangle. And it is not a scheme, it is an opportunity."
King of the Hill 417 Bill of Sales MetaLife Pyramid Scheme
sitnuokIt isn't backed by the FDIC.
Its not a real bank.
Fábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕@molly0xfff not exactly wrong... But what you can do when the most of them are bad actors?
industrial curiosity@molly0xfff investing in crypto? yep, you can call that a ponzi scheme. but that's not what crypto is for.
crypto in and of itself is no more or less fraudulent than any fiat currency or forex/stock trade, and just like fiat currencies it only gains *real* value when used for economic transactions.
an investment... is not an economic transaction.
so all the investors are ironically the main reason crypto hasn't been able to gain traction / make much of an impact.
@industrialcuriosity I strongly disagree with this. While fiat currencies have their problems, they tend to have strong regulatory structures in place that are designed to protect the consumer. FDIC (for banking) and SIPC, SEC etc (for investors). There are no such things for crypto, and customers have no protection, no place to go if things go bad.
And every time I make an investment, it is absolutely a financial transaction.
Crypto doesn't behave as currency. It behaves as a security.
@justanotherengineer an investment is speculation, you're not purchasing goods or services and getting guaranteed value. as for protections, you might be right but only to a point; in practice victims of real life fiat ponzi schemes don't really have much recourse when their money's already been spent
@industrialcuriosity So you're partially true in that any investment is speculation. But investments in public markets (I'm not going to get into private markets here, though most of the same principles apply).
Your "guaranteed value" is a straw man, though. There is really no such thing, as prices or values aren't fixed and never guaranteed.
But when you buy a stock, you are buying an ownership stake that's backed by earnings, capital, real property/IP. It's not purely speculative.
@justanotherengineer for "guaranteed value" there's absolutely such a thing and it's critical to a functioning economy. if you sell me a product or a service, we agree on the value in the moment and transact accordingly. how much was the famous two-bitcoin pizza actually worth? two bitcoin. that's how markets work. if i cannot easily be paid for a service rendered and be confident that i can then use that currency to pay my own bills, (continued)
@justanotherengineer (continued) then the currency itself has little inherent value. until such time as i can pay my rent and bills without converting to fiat currency, crypto is useless to me. until ordinary people are all doing so (as opposed to investing), the value will continue to fluctuate wildly. it's a vicious circle.
@industrialcuriosity
So then I don't understand how you use that standard and say investments are pure speculation. If I pay two Bitcoin for a pizza I can certainly also use two shares of Tesla or actual fiat currency.
The problem with using Bitcoin or Tesla is that the value at a given point in time can vary widely, which makes them not so good for everyday transactions. Fiat currency varies, but not with such wide swings.
@justanotherengineer that's not really how investments work, an investment is a bet that something's value will increase. good luck finding someone who's trying to make rent who's willing to sell you groceries for magic beans... what we need for day-to-day economic transactions is relative stability - trust - which we only get by using a currency for day-to-day transactions in large numbers.
Darrell@molly0xfff sometimes there are other schemes and they get upset being called a ponzi. For instance, sometimes it's just a straight up funnelling of other peoples money into one persons pockets without the pyramid of early investors. Just smoke
Esoter1k 👑@molly0xfff We gotta remind the idiots that not all Crypto are shady. Clueless #AnalogNormies 😤
Carlos Rodríguez@molly0xfff It’s baffling how much people gets confused by this.
curtmack@molly0xfff If I had a column in a major newspaper, I would be very tempted to write a piece with this exact title, but it goes on to explain that "crypto" is actually short for "cryptography" and therefore has no more intrinsic connection to the financial industry than a safe or an armored car. #CryptoIsCryptography #FreeOurLanguage
@molly0xfff That thing…about ducks…
Patty Kimura@molly0xfff Hey Crypto, Ponzi wants its reputation back!