Kees van der LeunEnergy crisis, winter 2022, Utrecht, the Netherlands: all patio heaters on outside, guests inside. Government spending tens of billions on energy subsidies, but who cares?
Wenslauw@Sustainable2050 here in Gouda I have seen people sitting outside under heaters at freezing temperatures. Utterly bizarre.
BudgetDuurzaam@wenslauw @Sustainable2050 Nop that’s just physics; the radiating heat warms their body.
Menno@budgetduurzaam @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 whose body exactly? Nobody there. And if people were there, it would be incredibly inefficient.
@MennoWolff @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 In Utrecht there was nobody, but in Gouda there where people. This heating is just the same way efficient as heating the earth by the sun… But even is something is efficient, thus it not primary leads to less energy-use. Thats for heating, but also for electric cars, trains, even for (electric) bikes: Only the primary result of the use defines the efficienty.
@budgetduurzaam @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 wow, you've set the bar pretty low. Given that less than 0.00000004% of the sun's energy even reaches earth, that's not very efficient, I'd say.
So by comparison those terrace heaters are fairly efficient.
But the bottom line is: it's a total waste of energy. The vast majority of the heat generated is lost to the environment.
So by comparison those terrace heaters are fairly efficient.
But the bottom line is: it's a total waste of energy. The vast majority of the heat generated is lost to the environment.
@budgetduurzaam @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 the 2 or so percent (total guess) that doesn't go lost into the surroundings. What's your point?
@MennoWolff @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 These heaters are just the same sort of energywaste as many other kinds of ‘energy use’. It’s ok to critize these heaters, if you too critizise other kinds of energy waste. Why for example is it quit common to move a 1500kg car, to move just 80kg of freight? That costs a lot more energy ‘use’ than sitting warm on a terras in winter. Its just what you find important or it is use or waste… (e.g. surroundings radiate too, energy never gets lost 😜 ) >
@MennoWolff @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 > Besides: 15 people on a terrace in winter under an electric heater of 4kW, use less energy than 15 people individual on their couch in the best insulated homes you can imagen.
@budgetduurzaam @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 that's the point. Those heaters are usually on, regardless of how many people are under it. Plus, i doubt a 4kW heater would be able to make up to 15 people comfortable.
Get people inside. More people in the room means less heating needed.
Get people inside. More people in the room means less heating needed.
@MennoWolff @wenslauw @Sustainable2050 Even if it used twice the power; home alone costs most people > 0,5kW/h. So 15 people can use 7,5kW before spilling energy on heating the terrace together.