Paul KrugmanWhat my friend Invictus is talking about is the fact that Tesla buyers are overwhelmingly in Dem districts, which he documented recently 1/ https://twitter.com/TBPInvictus/status/1607852684601704448
Here's his original evidence, with further stuff from the inimitable Charles Gaba 2/ https://ritholtz.com/2022/12/owning-the-libs/
Thoughts On Owning the Libs - The Big Picture
@TBPInvictus here. (Also on Post and Mastodon). Happy holidays to all, and the best for 2023. It’s been a hot minute since my last post, hope I remember how this thing works. I’ve been a huge fan of Twitter for well over a decade. It’s a fire hose of invaluable information from countless reliable…Read More
How I think about it: many people make a statement with the car they drive, maybe more than with any consumer good 3/
A Tesla is an expensive luxury car, but zero-emission, and until the other day Elon Musk seemed like a cool guy who does space travel while hanging out with singers and Westworld actresses 4/
So owning a Tesla was, to be crude but I think accurate, a way to say "I'm rich but I'm woke". Lots to criticize and ridicule there, but it was the marketing strategy 5/
Apparently, however, Musk didn't get his own memo. Instead he's gone full MAGA, turning off exactly the people who might buy his cars. Stupid? Unable to control his impulses? Probably both 6/
Sasha Fox@pkrugman Also his cars suck and keep trying to murder their owners.
Eight-car Thanksgiving pileup blamed on Tesla “Full Self-Driving” software
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/12/eight-car-thanksgiving-pileup-blamed-on-tesla-full-self-driving-software/
A Tesla driver watched in horror as another Tesla burst into flames after hitting a barrier
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-driver-watched-in-horror-tesla-crashed-burst-into-flames-2022-12
@pkrugman And those are since this was reported
Exclusive: Tesla faces U.S. criminal probe over self-driving claims
https://www.reuters.com/legal/exclusive-tesla-faces-us-criminal-probe-over-self-driving-claims-sources-2022-10-26/
Exclusive: Tesla faces U.S. criminal probe over self-driving claims
Tesla Inc <a href="https://www.reuters.com/companies/TSLA.O" target="_blank">(TSLA.O)</a> is under criminal investigation in the United States over claims that the company's electric vehicles can drive themselves, three people familiar with the matter said.
NumbCat9 💜s trans folx 🏳️⚧️Truth: EVs are *much much* safer than gasoline cars when it comes to fires. Beta testing FSD on real streets is dumb, tho where are state legs on that?
Musk is an evil fuck, but claiming EVs set themselves on fire at anywhere even approaching the rate that fossil fueled vehicles do is just Big Oil propaganda.
Don’t let that evil fuck destroy your judgment and perspective.
EVs: *great*
Musk: Terrible
Source: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicles-involved-in-fewest-car-fires.
@sashafox @pkrugman good thing other companies sell them now, and thanks to Tesla for making *that* happen.
Also testing FSD on real streets is fucked up, including when non-Musk companies do it.
When self-driving tech works it’ll create transit opportunities for disabled folks that never existed before. It’ll disrupt short haul flights a lot. All of which is good.
When it works. Which isn’t now by any stretch.
But Musk is a prick, so…
@numbcat9 @pkrugman The problem with Elon's cars is that they keep driving into other cars, barrier, and children.
They aren't more likely to explode just sitting there, but the Tesla driving itself into a highway barrier caused the fire.
So yeah, not electronic vehicles, just a criminally negligent self-driving feature.
Yes. But we have to sharpen our attacks. Big Oil absolutely loves that we cannot seem to do that as a movement.
FSD is amazing, as are the other self-driving techs. But it’s not ready for road use yet. When it is, it’ll be a total gamechanger especially for disabled folks. Total. Also will mostly kill short-haul plane flights, also very good for climate.
Musk doesn’t equal FSD or self-driving tech. He’s an asshole. The idea is solid.
@numbcat9 @pkrugman Yeah, full self driving will be good eventually. What's happened here is that Musk is putting technology that won't be safe for another decade onto the road right now so that he can generate headlines that make him seem at the cutting edge of technology, done with the assumption that regulation is weak enough and that he's wealthy enough to avoid all consequences for the inevitable results of that negligence.
Orcyou are stating something as fact that the available evidence does not support.
Teslas: ~5 per billion miles driven
All vehicles: ~56 per billion miles driven
I mean I guess Tesla could’ve misstated by a factor of 10 but then they’d only be average.
You’re not speaking from a position of facts. That doesn’t help anyone.
Musk is a fucking dick, don’t let him make you take leave of your senses!
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman I don't think anyone is saying that electric vehicles are the problem. It's that Teslas are bad. They're poorly put together. They are actively dangerous because they will do things like turn into oncoming traffic and not brake for children.
Teslas do things like automatically lock all the doors and windows during a fire and turn off manual control for the locks so the driver is trapped inside. After the car took control and drove into a wall.
That's why people are saying they're not safe.
Everyone here thinks electric cars are better than gas powered cars.
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman Like, it's a common complaint that Teslas are put together poorly on top of all the other issues.
Using slave labor to construct your expensive computer cars isn't really a smart idea.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-gm-among-car-makers-facing-senate-inquiry-into-possible-links-to-uyghur-forced-labor-11671722563?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1
Again, all issues specifically with Elon Musk and his failures at running a company, not evidence of electric cars being bad.
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman You can see reports about how Elon Musk, specifically, was putting out cars with serious manufacturing problems going back years.
He's the problem.
Tesla employees say automaker is churning out a high volume of flawed parts
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/14/tesla-manufacturing-high-volume-of-flawed-parts-employees.html
An expert dismantled a Tesla Model 3. He found poor design and manufacturing
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-model-3-design-profits-20181017-story.html
Tesla Model Y’s Serious Production Problems
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-y-ev-safety-quality-issues-problems/
Tesla was ranked lowest in the 2020 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, thanks largely to build quality issues reported by owners.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128625_tesla-ranks-last-in-initial-quality-build-issues
@sashafox @orc @pkrugman you don’t have to convince me Musk is a problem, even at Tesla. He’s a horrible boss.
Also here’s the 2022 rankings. Tesla is bad, but better than VW, Audi, Volvo, and Chrysler.
I keep trying to point out the whole line of argument makes EVs look bad, not just Tesla. You keep insisting otherwise. We are at impasse.
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman I'm saying that the problems with Teslas are entirely Musk created, and that it's important to point out that other electric vehicles aren't like Teslas.
Like, they don't have buggy software that doesn't break when children try to cross the road, and they weren't put together using plastic screws and large gaps where parts don't fit together. Teslas do.
Electric cars are much safer than gas cars.
Teslas aren't representative of all electric cars, and so you shouldn't use their numbers as a stand in for electric cars. Use the numbers for Chevy Bolts.
Chevy Bolts which set themselves on fire so frequently they had to recall literally every single Bolt and cannot actually do the recall because manufacturing hundreds of thousands of *safe replacement* packs is super difficult and they cannot keep up. they’re only at half. Chevy recommends you park them outside and don’t charge them all the way.
https://insideevs.com/news/621377/two-years-after-chevy-bolt-recall/
The available data do not support your assertion, and I would eagerly welcome data that did. I’m perfectly happy to be wrong. But you’ve provided no data to back your assertion. I’ve linked mine.
Bag on Musk. He’s a shithead who deserves what he gets.
It seems I am going to have to accept that Musk haters are going to negatively affect the overall EV market and hope I’m wrong about that.
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman You're only looking at vehicle fires. I"m saying that is leaving out the issues with Teslas actively attempting to murder their owners.
For the 4th time, nothing about this is representative of electric vehicles. It's that Musk is doing a bad job manufacturing Teslas because he keeps trying to cheap out on production and keeps promising features they can't deliver, and putting out a dangerous substitute instead.
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman Tesla is facing a criminal investigation because Musk keeps lying about what his cars can do, and people are getting killed because he lied to people.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/exclusive-tesla-faces-us-criminal-probe-over-self-driving-claims-sources-2022-10-26/
https://www.reuters.com/legal/exclusive-tesla-faces-us-criminal-probe-over-self-driving-claims-sources-2022-10-26/
Exclusive: Tesla faces U.S. criminal probe over self-driving claims
Tesla Inc <a href="https://www.reuters.com/companies/TSLA.O" target="_blank">(TSLA.O)</a> is under criminal investigation in the United States over claims that the company's electric vehicles can drive themselves, three people familiar with the matter said.
Look I can tell you’re not available to incorporating new information but I urge you to watch the movie Tucker to understand what’s going on with Tesla and EVs broadly.
Musk is an awful, execrable person. Please focus on that instead of unintentionally doing favors for Big Auto and Big Oil.
But more importantly, do whatever the heck you want. I’ve said as much substantive stuff as I’m going to.
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman Also the "big auto" complaint seems weird to me because like, all of those companies are moving over their production to electric vehicles in the future.
It doesn't make sense to think they would want to undermine confidence in their own products. Most big car companies are planning to be fully electric over the next 10 - 15 years.
https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/automaker-ev-plans/
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman Why would they be trying to demonize electric cars when they're all electric car producers?
Doesn't it seem more rational that Elon's habit of drawing attention to himself and lying about everything have caught up to him, rather than believing anyone would need to do any work to make him look bad?
Like, he just took over the company, pushed out the founders, and is trying to manufacture the product so cheaply that it's incredibly flawed.
That doesn't require any conspiracy. It's just the actions of a shitty person with too much money.
They aren’t. Big Auto are trying to demonize Tesla, a competitor they want to destroy.
Big Oil wants people to be scared of EVs broadly. They won’t survive it if everyone buys EVs. Fuels for pax vehicles & trucks are just too large a segment of their market. It’s existential for them.
Things get complicated IRL. Lotta knowledge to hold on to just to try to understand the market even a little.
@sashafox @orc @pkrugman and if you’re over here claiming that suggesting Big Auto and Big Oil don’t fuck with all kinds of political stuff, again I’m going to request your data.
Mine are court cases & actual historical events, like what they did to Tucker, or how they refused to put seatbelts or airbags in cars until they were forced to in 1983. They’d resisted since 1967. https://www.nytimes.com/1983/06/25/us/high-court-backs-airbags-mandate.html
Disagree with Big Oil’s propaganda strategy all you want. Big Auto started making EVs because Tesla proved it could be done profitably.
And it’s Big Auto that Big Oil has to court. Not the other way around. So no. They can go after the EV-only companies for obvious reasons.
You seem to be learning this stuff for the first time. Why keep up the argument?
@numbcat9 @orc @pkrugman Like, Musk's new ideas about building cars are "Let's be super racist and abusive to our employees and get rid of unions and safety regulations."
These are not a positive development. It being a new company doesn't make it a good company.
Tesla Denied Retrial Over Black Worker’s Racism Verdict
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-07/tesla-denied-retrial-over-black-worker-s-racism-verdict
Tesla hit with complaints of wage, safety violations at Texas plant
https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/tesla-hit-with-complaints-wage-safety-violations-texas-plant-2022-11-15/
Tesla found guilty of union busting
https://labortribune.com/tesla-found-guilty-of-union-busting/
Bennihana70@Bennihana70 @sashafox @pkrugman this is true of every EV, and Big Oil thanks you.
maybe don’t do PR work for Big Oil idk
David Harlan