redwoodDec 23, 2022
What do folks think about #ukraine. Is the US prolonging war and civilian suffering by supplying armaments?
Yes
0%
No
60%
You are a Russian troll
40%
Poll ended at .
Show threadJeff Shaffer CBET, retDec 23, 2022
@redwood History may may not repeat itself, but it certainly rhymes. We’ve seen what happens when a totalitarian society is met with #Appeasement, it results in more death and destruction. The #UkrainianPeople know what will happen to them if they lose, here is what I think is a valid assessment:
https://apple.news/AZ6U34gA_TdqP5QBmfCA-0Q
The Brutal Alternate World in Which the U.S. Abandoned Ukraine — The Atlantic

Ukrainian resistance and American support prevented a wide range of horrors.

Show threadredwoodDec 23, 2022
@CivilityFan But what if we were also forcing parties to the negotiating table?
Show threadRobert Denby
@redwood @CivilityFan Would you be willing to give up YOUR home to an invader for the sake of a negotiated settlement that rewards the aggressor with some of what it tried to steal that it cannot keep without someone forcing its victim to negotiate? Cause, I know you wouldn't. Because no one would. And I think you have to acknowledge your privilege in insisting that someone else surrender their home in a war that only tangentially affects you just to salve our feelings.
Dec 23, 2022 at 5:38pmWeb
Show threadredwoodDec 24, 2022
@Bullix I think the only feelings that really matter are those of suffering of civilians. It could just as easily be said that those that have nothing to lose are the first to promote endless war. The people that are left behind are always left with the scars. The only way this conflict ends is with negotiations. Delaying will not change that, it will only add to suffering.
Show threadRobert DenbyDec 24, 2022

@redwood
And those suffering civilians are not, repeat *not*, clamoring to surrender a third of their country to their historical oppressor whose ass they are thoroughly kicking.

I'm sorry, but I see absolutely no reason to pressure them into giving up while many of their homes remain under the spiked heel of russian soldiers. They are not wanted there, and a negotiated settlement that "punishes" aggression by giving it whatever it can grab before insisting on negotiation is worse than useless

Show threadredwoodDec 24, 2022
@Bullix I wouldn’t presume to know what negotiations will yield. But I do know that more armaments will surely cause more destruction and misery.
Show threadRobert DenbyDec 24, 2022
@redwood So will giving Russia gifts for it's aggression.
Show threadredwoodDec 26, 2022
@Bullix not sure what you mean by “gifts.” That’s not what negotiation to bring about peace is about.
Show threadRobert DenbyDec 26, 2022

@redwood
Negotiation also isn't about letting your attacker rest and rearm while they continue to hold a quarter of your country hostage and kidnap tens of thousands of children to send home to russia.

Your unwillingness and/or inability to address the reality that russia is the aggressor and the abuser here undermines your point catastrophically. I note you haven't once mentioned how the war would end if Russia left the place where it is not welcome. Nor have you mentioned their war crimes.

Show threadRobert DenbyDec 26, 2022

@redwood You don't call on Russia to retreat. Or surrender. You merely make milque-toast generic points about how war is bad. But it seems that you can't bring yourself to live in the reality that the aggressor is losing and getting its ass kicked. That it has stolen tens of thousands of children, committed war atrocities by the dozens, and that its war began by illegally annexing part of Ukraine in 2014.

Your desire for peace would be meaningful if it were not divorced from factual realities.