Mastodawn

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@argumento @StevenBeschloss Of course that war was entered into by Americans because of bad information given to the U.S There was lying and manipulation done by other parties with axes to grind. There was also the 9/11 attack on the U.S. and stupidly there was the belief that Iraq was somehow implicated in that. I was against that war and said so much to many but of course it happened and many now regret it ever did happen and wish we were not all lied to.

Mary M. Redoutey

@argumento @StevenBeschloss This war and that war are of course very different.
The United States is defending a free nation which has sought our assistance Russia attacked Ukraine and continues to attack it. It's desire is to terrorize, oppress and murder. Russia barbaric attack was unwarranted and is totally ignoble and without merit

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@argumento @StevenBeschloss NATO is the good guys in this instance.

BarryKnight Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss there are no good guys. There is no Superman. They are all Lex Luthor.

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@merlecat @argumento @StevenBeschloss
I disagree with that statement.
In my view the one who arbitrarily attacks another is at fault and is the antagonist and the one defending one's homeland against incursion is the protagonist.
We perhaps may just disagree but it isn't whataboutism or misinformation.

BarryKnight Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss
You think Puti attacked Ukraine “arbitrarily”
That’s part of the problem. A lack of understanding of the conflict.
I am in no way defending Putin, but this invasion was not arbitrary.

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@merlecat @argumento @StevenBeschloss When there is a preemptive strike, in my view it can be nothing but arbitrary.
It was in fact preemptive and was in fact unjust and immoral in my view. Putin, the former KGB Agent, had the goal to attain lost imperialistic power as he resented the fall of the USSR
He was in effect like the old boyfriend unwilling to treat his ex as a free agent, seeing her talk to others as a threat because of his own narcissistic insecurities.

BarryKnight Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss how familiar are you with what took place in Ukraine for the eight years prior to this past February?
There is no excusing Putin’s invasion. That’s not what I’m doing. But to call it arbitrary?
Just the whims of a mad man? No.

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@merlecat @argumento @StevenBeschloss Again and I will repeat it over again.
In my view a preemptive strike can only be arbitrary.

See synonyms for: arbitrary / arbitrarily / arbitrariness on Thesaurus.com
adjective
subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion:
an arbitrary decision.

It was within his and only his control. He chose to do it in a certain day.

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@merlecat @argumento @StevenBeschloss It was voluntary not involuntarily. He unilaterally made a decision and frankly given the harm it has had on Russia's place in the world, it's people and the economy, some could argue that it was capricious.
Do I think he is a mad man? Perhaps he's a guy with narcissistic personality disorder.
But I don't see him as whimsical.

BarryKnight Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss unjust and immoral? Yes. Of course. Arbitrary? Absolutely not. In fact there are those that have been warning of this exact scenario for years.

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@merlecat @argumento @StevenBeschloss It appears you are looking at a different definition of the word than I was when I used the word arbitrary.
And oddly enough there are several... One could also argue that Putin is always arbitrary I suppose as this is also a definition of the word:

Arbitrary
having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical:an arbitrary government

I wouldn't go that far though.

BarryKnight Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss

https://mastodon.sdf.org/@merlecat/109554149111061346

BarryKnight (@[email protected])

https://youtu.be/TRxcGD41Ol8 If you’d like a rational fact based objective analysis of the war in Ukraine and how to end it, watch this. If you’d like to cheerlead for a perpetual state of war, watch CNN.

Mastodon @ SDF

BarryKnight Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss
A share this analysis so as not to be accused of mansplaining.
Medea has far better knowledge of this conflict and the events that led to it than any of the talking heads on tv selling war to the American people.

BarryKnight Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss
I’d pay particular attention to the part where the UK and US sabotaged peace talks in Turkey because the say a prolonged bloody conflict would be MORE ADVANTAGEOUS.
It would both weaken Russia and provide great financial opportunities for defense contractors, big banks, the fossil fuel industry and their CEOs and shareholders.
War is a racket. .

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@merlecat @argumento @StevenBeschloss Frankly, although some all over the world want the War to continue, as those who love to profit off of war always do, the US Government seems to have a different perspective which is far more nuanced. It appears to want to have Ukraine enter into negotiation strong so it doesn't lose more territory or people to Russia...

https://www.justsecurity.org/84023/putins-war-against-ukraine-and-the-risks-of-rushing-to-negotiations/

Putin’s War Against Ukraine and the Risks of Rushing to Negotiations

Intensified calls for the West to initiate talks on essentially his terms seem oddly timed – and potentially dangerous.

Just Security

Taci7 Dec 22, 2022

@MaryMRedoutey @argumento @StevenBeschloss looks like whataboutism and disinformation have migrated as well

Mary M. Redoutey Dec 22, 2022

@taci7 @argumento @StevenBeschloss whataboutism and disinformation in what way and by whom?