Mastodawn

Meta Mike Dominguez Dec 16, 2022

Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇

Just before the invasion, #Ukraine made a deal with #Amazon #AWS to create a data warehouse for its government information and infrastructure: tax and property records, bank statements, and the like. Things that an invaded and occupied Ukraine might lose if Russia got their hands on the only copies.

They literally snuck Pelican crates full of SSDs into the country and spirited them back offshore after backing up 10 petabytes of important historic and legal records.

This paragraph, second from the end, really put a fine point on why Amazon did this: They were not beholden to, nor being held hostage by, any Russian operations...because they never had any:

Amazon didn’t have to worry about its relationship with Russia on the Snowball project. It doesn’t have one. “We didn’t have anything to turn off there,” Maxwell said. “We had never invested there. It’s a point of principle.”

Truly an amazing story from the #LATimes.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-12-15/amazon-ukraine-war-cloud-data

How Amazon is helping Ukraine in its war against Russia by putting its 'government in a box'

Amazon is helping Ukraine transfer critical government, business and property data into the company's data cloud.

Los Angeles Times

CaseyL Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch
Considering all the evil stuff Amazon has done, this is truly remarkable and get AWS many brownie points.

Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

@CaseyL
I'm honestly blown away by this, and it has made me reevaluate my opinion on their service.

NancyAnn Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch @CaseyL
I’ve always been wary of our attempt at a normal relationship with putin. I think Besos is no dummy, and couldn’t see how taking the chance made sense.

Galad Dec 16, 2022

@nancyann @threatresearch @CaseyL It’s impossible to do business with a kleptocracy.

TheOtherRae Dec 16, 2022

@CaseyL @threatresearch My thoughts, exactly! Also, if faced with invasion, I'm pretty confident that the UK government would never be that forward thinking.

Jess 🏳️‍⚧️🇺🇦Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Wow, this is really interesting. Thanks for sharing!

I wonder how many individual "Snowballs" they used. I imagine no "Snowmobiles" since thats a big, targetable truck.

It's nice to see how the cloud can effect good like this.

Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

@kuxaku
I can only imagine! This is just one tiny story and it reads like it could be the outline of a movie. Real cloak-and-dagger stuff in the modern age.

Jess 🏳️‍⚧️🇺🇦Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch

"Title: "Escape to Poland"

Synopsis: When a city across the border is under bombardment and hard drives containing critical government data are in danger of being destroyed, a team of elite operatives led by Keanu Reeves must race against time to bring them to safety. But the mission takes a deadly turn when they discover that the only way to protect the data is to clone it to their own drives before the enemies can destroy it."

Jess 🏳️‍⚧️🇺🇦Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch ..." With bullets flying and the city in chaos, the team must navigate their way through the destruction, outsmart their enemies, and escape across the border with the drives in hand. But their journey is far from over, as they must then make their way to Poland where they can upload the data to the cloud in safety."

Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

@kuxaku
😂 Just needs the "in a world" voiceover guy and that's perfect trailer narration. I'd see that movie.

Jess 🏳️‍⚧️🇺🇦Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Haha perfect.

It didn't like some of my ideas about "russia" and "ukraine". I kept getting moderated by the bot 😠

DiffieHellmanStan (Tony)Dec 16, 2022

@kuxaku @threatresearch I would watch the hell out of that.

Smellbringer Dec 16, 2022

@kuxaku @threatresearch This was a plot point in the original Modern Warfare 2. You had to hold off waves of enemies while a drive copied all the data off a PC. And then you almost die before being saved by your superior officer... who then shoots and kills you.

TheOtherRae Dec 16, 2022

@kuxaku @threatresearch Was momentarily distracted from the plot at the mention of Keanu Reeves... 😊

llywrch Dec 15, 2022

@kuxaku @threatresearch I figure if the Russians learned about this around the same time we have, then the size of the trucks didn’t matter. You can destroy something you don’t know exists. (Unless the Russians were firing shells & missiles at anything & everything crossing the Polish-Ukrainian border.)

Graham Williams Dec 16, 2022

@kuxaku @threatresearch the snow project and snowball are designed for petabytes transfers. The devices themselves seem to currently be only 50TB, but the pricing is designed to get AWS income: https://aws.amazon.com/snowball/pricing/

AWS Snowball Pricing | Amazon Web Services

AWS Snowball pricing provides details on service fees related to data transfers, onsite usage, and shipping.

Amazon Web Services, Inc.

Zac Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch

What does it say about corporate ethics and morals that Amazon is taking the high road?

Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

I don't know if there's a bigger picture point that can be made. Amazon has had a troubled history.

But this story really seems to make a clear moral and ethical distinction that sets it apart from companies like, for instance, Cloudflare.

Zac Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch

Not arguing that point at all. Its just that Amazon has workers that have to urinate in bottles so if they are that bad and still make a more ethical choice then what does say about the rest?

Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

@lolzac absolutely, there's no debate here. But there are clearly different divisions of the company and those AWS parts are distinct from the online-retailer and last-mile-delivery parts.

annia ciezadlo Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch @lolzac AWS also works closely with ICE and CBP to enforce policies like separating children at the border: https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/10/22/139639/amazon-is-the-invisible-backbone-behind-ices-immigration-crackdown/. I'm glad they're on the right side in this one, but the idea of any private company having control over an entire government's archives, let alone this company, isn't ideal. Also doesn't sit right with me that this story is written in the style of advertorial, with zero critical or even outside perspective. (Hello, Amazon now has absolute control over private data of Ukrainian citizens WHO DID NOT GIVE IT TO THEM? Think you might want to get a pro-privacy perspective on that, LA Times? Especially given that the EU has very different standards than the US when it comes to data privacy?) That lack of journalistic integrity, plus the chorus of astroturfy comments—wow, Amazon is GREAT! Way to go, Amazon! We sure are lucky amazon is SO GREAT!—gives this whole package the feel of a successful p.r. campaign.

Amazon is the invisible backbone of ICE’s immigration crackdown

Lobbying dollars and a cozy relationship with the government have given the tech giant an outsize influence in the Department of Homeland Security.

MIT Technology Review

DiffieHellmanStan (Tony)Dec 16, 2022

@annia @threatresearch @lolzac Very good point.

@annia @threatresearch @lolzac but what would be the alternative here? Amazon is a huge govt contractor so I’m sure we can find whatever else is awful to attach them to in how they serve the govt (and others). But the alternative was what? Lose everything to russias invasion of Ukraine?

annia ciezadlo Dec 16, 2022

@brendon_luke @threatresearch @lolzac lol thanks for proving precisely my point, guy who bills himself (and presumably his clients) as a "Political consultant specializing in integrated advertising campaigns & segmented audience communications"

Zac Dec 16, 2022

@brendon_luke @annia @threatresearch

I think that discussion shifts slightly from the more general discussion we were talking about.

@lolzac @annia @threatresearch would Ukrainians have preferred to lose all of their public records? Perhaps ask the russians to take a day off so they can hold a vote?
Amazon treating their workers like trash is inherent of most corporations, at least someone in the power structure made a great decision to help people in a time of need.

Zac Dec 16, 2022

@brendon_luke @annia @threatresearch

Well there is a lot to unpack there. But, as I mentioned in my last reply, this is not really in the scope of the discussion we were having.

Sorta getting the feeling that you just want to argue and that isn't what I am here for.

AwesomeJess 🏳️‍⚧️Dec 17, 2022

@brendon_luke I think the more important point is that it doesn't really matter what good Amazon does when their workers are crushed under their boot, they cycle through them so fast that it might as well be called a systematic burnout operation.

Apart from that, they were lucky enough or unlucky enough to not have gotten into Russia before the invasion. Until about November 2021, no one knew whether they'd attack or not. And then until Feb, only few specific people knew. Amazon got lucky they didn't have to turn anything off, just pure luck.

I think companies that pulled out of Russia are just as "moral" as them, which is amoral, because they pulled out because of sanctions, a lot of them wouldn't have minded the higher traffic/sales/revenue during wartime.

A lot of companies would have pulled out anyway, because of individuals inside them taking stances, but I think we have enough data on wars to know that certain individuals will always be willing to look the other way for profit.

Private companies aren't really worth celebrating when they do a good thing, it's mostly used as PR just so their public image isn't too bad, or they're just making profit, which is the thing they were created to do, which is often immoral or amoral.

Kevin Granade has moved Dec 16, 2022

@lolzac @threatresearch Amazon has definitely done a lot of shitty things (union-busting cines to mind), but I take a lot of things said about them with some hefty grains of salt because I've seen so many completely baseless hitpieces about Amazon.

Zac Dec 16, 2022

@kevingranade @threatresearch

I'm not aware of any 'baseless hitpieces' about Amazon. Do you have links to two or three?

Kevin Granade has moved Dec 17, 2022

@lolzac @threatresearch I don't keep a list, but this is the most infamous one https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace

The company is conducting an experiment in how far it can push white-collar workers to get them to achieve its ever-expanding ambitions.

The New York Times

Zac Dec 17, 2022

@kevingranade @threatresearch

Is it that article or the original

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

They edited the article enough that they had to archive the original

Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace

The company is conducting an experiment in how far it can push white-collar workers to get them to achieve its ever-expanding ambitions.

Collette Lynner Dec 16, 2022

@lolzac @threatresearch Without sounding too too cynical, I can agree that Amazon is mercenary. Ukraine is badass.

Galad Dec 16, 2022

@lolzac @threatresearch Ukraine has already won the war, Putin just doesn’t realize it yet. That being said it means that this effort is free advertising for Amazon and a massive PR boost. This is one of those rare moments when business sense and doing the right thing actually align.

stefan ( <= alter Account)Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch As there are rarely any positive news about Amazon, I have to boost this!

kira :3 Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch not used to amazon being the good guy but go off

Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

@chrisisgr8 This is a bigger "what a twist" than M. Night Shyamalan could come up with!

rancor Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch this is simply a good pr move, for the piss bottle company

rancor Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch it's no secret that sending people to do "spy stuff" for a country that has the full wartime backing of the US Government is phenomenal PR.

I'm not saying this isn't possibly a good thing for them to have done, but I AM saying it's definitely something they expected great pr from, in context.

And, also - Amazon contracts directly with the US government, heavily. Those efforts are substantially boosted by this, regardless of who paid for it.

rancor Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch I am also incredibly suspicious of the timing of this story, additionally, considered Amazon has dozens of independent stories coming out from all angles about how they *canceled possibly hundreds of peoples new jobs*, in the middle of their relocation (uprooting their lives) to move closer to their new workplace.

@threatresearch I don’t know how to feel about this toward Amazon. But glad this was made possible to ensure the future of Ukrainian governance.

Michelle Daniels Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch AWS as the good guys for once. I'll be damned.

David Fleetwood Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch To add a little context to this, I was working for Amazon in the Kindle division between 2011-2017. We were going to do a full launch in Russia back in 2014 and were putting a ton of work into that launch. Then they invaded Crimea and everything was put on hold. After a year the pause, and all the money/effort spent on it, was scrapped.

I can't claim it was for altruistic reasons, management there does not know the meaning, but it was the right decision.

j robinson ☕️ &🍸Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Well damn, i might have to stop badmouthing AWS.

TwoTwenty Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Im not sure why people find it hard to believe AWS probably largely in bed with CIA/NSA would not have operations in russia. I guess if thats the case reconsider the CIA and NSA's spying activity.

coelliptic Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch

[MOVED TO HACHYDERM] Erik Ž Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch it's a compromise, see — they're already doing business in china instead.

Jeanne Ringland Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch

AmbularD Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch This does not make up for the bad stuff Amazon does, but it's refreshing to see that they occasionally do something right.

Oregon Wine Woman Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch YES!!!!

Tamar Yellin Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch wow, this is incredible!

Daniel AJ Sokolov Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Thank you for sharing.

Kadin Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Nice, although I don't really believe the "it's a point of principle" part.

Amazon has 10 billion small green reasons not to get in bed with Russia:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/28/nsa_wands_aws/

(Although I think DoD has since spread the love around to Microsoft, Google, Oracle, etc.—some "hybrid cloud" concept—because you can't give away $10B without everyone who didn't win calling up their pet senators to complain.)

But we are rapidly approaching a time when technology companies will no longer be allowed to fence-sit when it comes to geopolitics. If you want to be the US government's cloud provider of choice, you can't be messing about with Russia (and presumably vice versa, although the Russians are probably more reserved with what they put onto computers).

$10b National Security Agency contract re-awarded to AWS

Microsoft won, Amazon complained. Amazon won, Microsoft complained. Amazon won... again

The Register

Barry Schwartz 🫖Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Go Amazon!

J. L. 1285 Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Not too often will you read a feel-good story involving Amazon, but here it is.

toa5t Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch Jesus. Stop making me like Amazon!

Antonio Piccolboni Dec 15, 2022

@threatresearch
Is the point here that Amazon would have not helped Ukraine had they had a big operation in Russia or that they had the foresight of not developing such operation?

Quokka 🇦🇺Dec 16, 2022

@threatresearch Someone was telling me the other day that only idiots put things in the cloud. I think I'll go send him this.

ArchaeoIain Dec 16, 2022

@threatresearch the only good thing I have heard about Amazon

enmodo ⚛️ 🧬 🇺🇦 🍉Dec 16, 2022

@threatresearch Bezos obviously learned not to do business with people who have a propensity to end a relationship with a defenestration or poison pill, literally.