Andrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

Just before the invasion, #Ukraine made a deal with #Amazon #AWS to create a data warehouse for its government information and infrastructure: tax and property records, bank statements, and the like. Things that an invaded and occupied Ukraine might lose if Russia got their hands on the only copies.

They literally snuck Pelican crates full of SSDs into the country and spirited them back offshore after backing up 10 petabytes of important historic and legal records.

This paragraph, second from the end, really put a fine point on why Amazon did this: They were not beholden to, nor being held hostage by, any Russian operations...because they never had any:

Amazon didn’t have to worry about its relationship with Russia on the Snowball project. It doesn’t have one. “We didn’t have anything to turn off there,” Maxwell said. “We had never invested there. It’s a point of principle.”

Truly an amazing story from the #LATimes.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-12-15/amazon-ukraine-war-cloud-data

How Amazon is helping Ukraine in its war against Russia by putting its 'government in a box'

Amazon is helping Ukraine transfer critical government, business and property data into the company's data cloud.

Los Angeles Times
Show threadZacDec 15, 2022

@threatresearch

What does it say about corporate ethics and morals that Amazon is taking the high road?

Show threadAndrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022

@lolzac

I don't know if there's a bigger picture point that can be made. Amazon has had a troubled history.

But this story really seems to make a clear moral and ethical distinction that sets it apart from companies like, for instance, Cloudflare.

Show threadZacDec 15, 2022

@threatresearch

Not arguing that point at all. Its just that Amazon has workers that have to urinate in bottles so if they are that bad and still make a more ethical choice then what does say about the rest?

Show threadAndrew 🌻 Brandt 🐇Dec 15, 2022
@lolzac absolutely, there's no debate here. But there are clearly different divisions of the company and those AWS parts are distinct from the online-retailer and last-mile-delivery parts.
Show threadannia ciezadlo
@threatresearch @lolzac AWS also works closely with ICE and CBP to enforce policies like separating children at the border: https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/10/22/139639/amazon-is-the-invisible-backbone-behind-ices-immigration-crackdown/. I'm glad they're on the right side in this one, but the idea of any private company having control over an entire government's archives, let alone this company, isn't ideal. Also doesn't sit right with me that this story is written in the style of advertorial, with zero critical or even outside perspective. (Hello, Amazon now has absolute control over private data of Ukrainian citizens WHO DID NOT GIVE IT TO THEM? Think you might want to get a pro-privacy perspective on that, LA Times? Especially given that the EU has very different standards than the US when it comes to data privacy?) That lack of journalistic integrity, plus the chorus of astroturfy comments—wow, Amazon is GREAT! Way to go, Amazon! We sure are lucky amazon is SO GREAT!—gives this whole package the feel of a successful p.r. campaign.
Amazon is the invisible backbone of ICE’s immigration crackdown

Lobbying dollars and a cozy relationship with the government have given the tech giant an outsize influence in the Department of Homeland Security.

MIT Technology Review
Dec 15, 2022 at 9:42pmWeb
Show threadDiffieHellmanStan (Tony)Dec 16, 2022
@annia @threatresearch @lolzac Very good point.
Show threadBDec 16, 2022
@annia @threatresearch @lolzac but what would be the alternative here? Amazon is a huge govt contractor so I’m sure we can find whatever else is awful to attach them to in how they serve the govt (and others). But the alternative was what? Lose everything to russias invasion of Ukraine?
Show threadannia ciezadloDec 16, 2022
@brendon_luke @threatresearch @lolzac lol thanks for proving precisely my point, guy who bills himself (and presumably his clients) as a "Political consultant specializing in integrated advertising campaigns & segmented audience communications"
Show threadZacDec 16, 2022

@brendon_luke @annia @threatresearch

I think that discussion shifts slightly from the more general discussion we were talking about.

Show threadBDec 16, 2022
@lolzac @annia @threatresearch would Ukrainians have preferred to lose all of their public records? Perhaps ask the russians to take a day off so they can hold a vote?
Amazon treating their workers like trash is inherent of most corporations, at least someone in the power structure made a great decision to help people in a time of need.
Show threadZacDec 16, 2022

@brendon_luke @annia @threatresearch

Well there is a lot to unpack there. But, as I mentioned in my last reply, this is not really in the scope of the discussion we were having.

Sorta getting the feeling that you just want to argue and that isn't what I am here for.

Show threadAwesomeJess 🏳️‍⚧️Dec 17, 2022

@brendon_luke I think the more important point is that it doesn't really matter what good Amazon does when their workers are crushed under their boot, they cycle through them so fast that it might as well be called a systematic burnout operation.

Apart from that, they were lucky enough or unlucky enough to not have gotten into Russia before the invasion. Until about November 2021, no one knew whether they'd attack or not. And then until Feb, only few specific people knew. Amazon got lucky they didn't have to turn anything off, just pure luck.

I think companies that pulled out of Russia are just as "moral" as them, which is amoral, because they pulled out because of sanctions, a lot of them wouldn't have minded the higher traffic/sales/revenue during wartime.

A lot of companies would have pulled out anyway, because of individuals inside them taking stances, but I think we have enough data on wars to know that certain individuals will always be willing to look the other way for profit.

Private companies aren't really worth celebrating when they do a good thing, it's mostly used as PR just so their public image isn't too bad, or they're just making profit, which is the thing they were created to do, which is often immoral or amoral.