Saadya WindauerDec 15, 2022
Ro
Batman but he finally gets therapy to deal with his parent's loss and realizes dressing up in a suit to beat up petty criminals is a trauma response and begins to invest billions into healthcare, police abolishment, fair housing, and drug treatment which drastically reduces crime to the point capitalists plot to eliminate him and when the succeed, this prompts the Justice Leauge to go after the industrialists responsible for his death, which give the general populace a chance to seize the means of production and the military is afraid to act because Superman has promised to destroy one military base for every civilian life they take.

That would be a pretty cool story.
Dec 13, 2022 at 11:35pmWeb
Show threadSigmundFroodDec 13, 2022
@Are0h That but Bruce keeps the suit and continues batmanning to take down industrialists while also helping the city.
Show threadEmmaDingleDec 17, 2022

@SigmundFrood

Keeps the suit, but only.to do charity visits to see little kids in hospital and tell them how he's all about being awesome now.

@Are0h

Show threadI use gotos in code 🇵🇷Dec 13, 2022
@Are0h where do I send the money to make this real?
Show thread⁂ Fish Id WardrobeDec 13, 2022
@Are0h I'm having trouble believing that supes would do anything antiestablishment, sadly
Show threadRoDec 13, 2022
@fishidwardrobe Don't be so sure https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/superman-renounces-us-citizenship-as-183347/
Superman Renounces U.S. Citizenship as Warners, DC Comics Bids for Global Audiences

“I’m tired of having my actions construed as instruments of U.S. policy,” he says in the latest issue of Action Comics which hit stands Wednesday.

The Hollywood Reporter
Show thread⁂ Fish Id WardrobeDec 14, 2022
@Are0h The problem with these big long-running vehicles is they have gone through so many versions of themselves that you can make them be anything. So, I misspoke. But maybe your story would work *better* if the characters had their serial numbers filed off. Then no-one can argue "The Batman I remember wouldn't do that."
Show threadRoDec 14, 2022
@fishidwardrobe That's one way of doing it, but these characters get reinvented all the time.

I think the way they are reinvented speaks to the limits of the imaginations of the people writing stories rather than believability.

Like we can believe Bats got his back broken and came back from that but not him investing in civic programs?

That's a cultural issue not a character consistency issue.
Show threadHelmicDec 16, 2022

@Are0h There's also the message added specifically by using those characters like this - that their current bootlicking stories aren't beyond reproach, that they don't have to be copaganda. Those stories having to exist alongside such a different vision means that the usual arguments about the cops at best being "complicated" in capeshit can be disarmed, because in this other Justice League story they were overthrown and that was a good thing and nothing was that fundamentally different about that iteration of the universe.

There's something to be said about mass media recycling itself forever but I think there is art to be made from taking these reused icons and using them to signaljam and create something actually new. I guess it'll all get recuperated anyways but it'd make for some good entertainment.
@fishidwardrobe

Show thread🐚 Undo Influence 🐚Dec 14, 2022

@fishidwardrobe @Are0h

Early Superman threw industrialists out windows to their deaths, IIRC.

Show threadyunchtimeDec 13, 2022
@Are0h this is my Superman. hope you write this!
Show threadRoDec 14, 2022
@yunchtime LOL, DC would sue me into oblivion, not to mention all the Batman stans frothing about me making Bats WOKE.
Show threadyunchtimeDec 14, 2022
@Are0h haha. yeah, well your own creation, of course. an ubermensch for the rest of us.
Show threadVioDec 14, 2022
@Are0h Way to cool for comics.
Show threadTrisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦Dec 14, 2022

@VioB @Are0h But not for fanfiction!

Seriously, though, most of the fanfic I've read where Bruce Wayne is in therapy deals mostly with his relationship with the Bat Family and not with him using his intelligence, financial power, and creative thinking to move Gotham City to a more progressive form of civic management. Which kinda says a lot about why people write fanfic.

Show threadVioDec 14, 2022
@trishalynn @Are0h My two cents are that comics readers are not really lefty thereselves.
Show threadTrisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦Dec 14, 2022
@VioB @Are0h That is a very unusual stance to take; can I ask how you developed it? 1/
Show threadTrisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦Dec 14, 2022
@VioB @Are0h My experience has been that anyone who likes comic books and/or other forms of serialized storytelling (like pro wrestling or sci-fi/fantasy) are also very interested in encouraging social justice. I also personally became radicalized to feminist thought fantasy, comic books, and anime. I started being active in my mid-20s as a writer for a feminist online 'zine called Sequential Tart. 2/End
Show threadVioDec 14, 2022
@trishalynn @Are0h I might not have really good arguments to justify my position I'm affraid, but I would say in my country, France, average comics readers are much liely to be right wing defender (and anti-woke speaker), I don't really know situation out of there.
Show threadVioDec 14, 2022
@trishalynn @Are0h It might have something to do with that comics promote heavily vigilantes and its something which really resonate to right-wingers.
Show threadTrisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦Dec 14, 2022
@VioB @Are0h No wonder I hadn't seen that in my social circles; I don't know many people who are currently living in France.
Show thread[MESSAGE ME TO FOLLOW] greenDec 17, 2022

@trishalynn @VioB @Are0h it might also be the kinds of comics in question. from my experience, Big Name Superhero Comics (TM) generally trend towards right-wing pro-military copaganda or utterly bland merchandising tie-in vehicles, but the farther towards the "fringes" and independent publishers you get, the more variation you find. and of course there's outliers in both directions on either side, but a good rule of thumb seems to be the bigger and more money-making the franchise, the farther right the comics will lean.

that said, comic writers and artists themselves tend to be lefty, and they will sneak subversive messages into their material whenever they get a chance. whether that gets past the editors is another story...

Show threadVioDec 17, 2022
@troodon @trishalynn @Are0h Of course; and I think biggest licences drain more readers and mechanicly this public is more prompt to be far right ones.
Show threadKatie Ashborn 🏳️‍⚧️Dec 14, 2022
@Are0h Batman as he exists is essentially a force for maintaining the status quo against the angry oppressed. Gotham's thugs and villains are symptoms of and responses to the sickness inherent in a capitalistic society and billionaire Bruce uses his endless money on gadgets to give him an advantage against the hordes of disenfranchised. I do believe that he WANTS to Do Good but he's so blinded by privilege [and trauma, thanks, Ro] that he can't even see those who truly need help as valid people.
Show threadJerry OrrDec 14, 2022
@katieashborn Have you read "Model Minority" by @pluralistic ? Has a Superman-like superhero that begins to realize his role in perpetuating the status quo, and finds it difficult to punch his way to justice. Involves a Batman-like character, too, which I won't go into because I don't want to spoil the story.
Show thread@CrapknockerDec 14, 2022
@jerryorr @katieashborn @pluralistic A similar take can be found in Superman: Red Son where Batman is technically a terrorist against the more tyrannical Superman of communist Russia. One of the all-time great Superman stories.
Show threadTrisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦Dec 14, 2022
@jerryorr Fantastic rec, I'll add this to my To Check Out pile. Thank you.
Show threadKatie Ashborn 🏳️‍⚧️Dec 15, 2022
@jerryorr @pluralistic I have not! I like his work so I'm kinda surprised by that, actually. Thank you for clueing me in and also for making me aware that I can follow him here.
Show threadBarney TrotwellDec 15, 2022
@jerryorr @katieashborn @pluralistic Wow, I was discussing The Boys recently, (after Pop Culture Detective's video about superheroes), and I was saying we need EXACTLY this: a superhero story with more realistic politics. The Boys added realism on the personal level, and some political nuance but not enough. I'll definitely read this!
Show threadalina🐾💖✨🏳️‍⚧️Dec 14, 2022
@Are0h I'd certainly watch it
Show threadunmellowDec 14, 2022
@Are0h Only nitpick I have, just because he realizes that his crime fighting is a trauma response; doesn't mean he stops being a master martial artist, with preparedness bordering on the level of future sight. I could see him ether faking his death, or warning the justice league in advance so he could go after these corporations with evidence and as minimal application of force as possible. Although your version is way more exciting, and equally plausible.
Show threaddjangoDec 14, 2022
@Are0h that’s class!
Show threadDenial 🐔 ShownDec 14, 2022
@Are0h have you seen Harley Quinn?
Show threadMoritz HeiberDec 14, 2022
@Are0h Actually, that’s a story I’d love to see, finally!
Show threadTristan Nitot✓Dec 14, 2022
@Are0h @FredricT thank you, I love it!
Show threadDr. Christian DeFeoDec 14, 2022
@Are0h To be fair, in "Superman: Red Son", Soviet Superman does assemble a hydroelectric plant.
Show threadclacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Dec 14, 2022
@Are0h The people who want to actually change the world always have to kick a puppy in Chapter 2 so that we know they're evil at heart and actually a supervillain.

Using your superpowers to change the system is seen as illiberal and undemocratic and must always secretly be a plan for fascist superhuman supremacist rule.
Show threadclacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Dec 14, 2022
This is a bit too long and a tad pompous but argues the point thoroughly.

Pop Culture Detective: "Marvel's Defenders of The Status Quo"

farside.link/invidious/watch?v…

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpitmE…
Show threadHakkathoustraDec 14, 2022
@Are0h
he would be murdered juste after announcing this amazing plan and nothing will change...
That's why he chose to be batman
Show threadSerge from BabkaDec 14, 2022
@Are0h So the opposite of The Dark Knight Returns?
Show threadJeremy (יעקב) 🇺🇦Dec 14, 2022

@Are0h

I don't get this. In the comics, the Wayne's *did* invest in health care, fighting police corruption and militarization, creating affordable housing, and drug and mental health treatments.

As Bruce, his playboy lifestyle usually revolves around these efforts. And as Batman, he is almost uniquely optimistic about letting mentally ill villains have chances to reform (sponsoring them upon release as Bruce!)

The problem is often the deleterious impacts of earlier efforts (such as Arkham).

Show threadLoukas (They/Them) 🏳️‍⚧️Dec 14, 2022
@Are0h B for Bendetta
Show threadOh Dec 14, 2022
@lydiaconwell This reminded me of something you said. https://ubiqueros.com/notes/98qfekr11y
Ro (@Are0h)

Batman but he finally gets therapy to deal with his parent's loss and realizes dressing up in a suit to beat up petty criminals is a trauma response and begins to invest billions into healthcare, police abolishment, fair housing, and drug treatment which drastically reduces crime to the point capitalists plot to eliminate him and when the succeed, this prompts the Justice Leauge to go after the industrialists responsible for his death, which give the general populace a chance to seize the means of production and the military is afraid to act because Superman has promised to destroy one military base for every civilian life they take. That would be a pretty cool story.

Ubiqueros: A PV Joint
Show threadLydia Conwell Dec 20, 2022
@oh Great ideas ... but not Hollywood friendly.
Show threadJulie moved to @[email protected]Dec 14, 2022
@Are0h If I like this idea that means I'm probably an anarchist doesn't it?
Show threadDon WhitesideDec 14, 2022

@Are0h @Tiffany Ellis’ The Authority run was, to me, a great sideways criticism of how supes are normally just culture enforcers and that they would inevitably have to be against existing structures if they were interested in the public good.

Willingham’s little parable (from the back pages of an 80s comic he used to write long before Fables) also is pretty dead-on. https://pastebin.com/8mTXDwYR

Bill Willingham's "The Godlike Man" essay from an Elementals back pages - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

Pastebin
Show threadStrider | ScottDec 14, 2022

@Are0h It'll never work. It doesn't have a grown man in his underpants. Know your audience, Ro!

😂

Show threadWalkerDec 14, 2022
@Are0h
Outstanding 🖌️
Show threadKavana RamaswamyDec 14, 2022
@Are0h I would watch every fucking movie from this DCverse. Someone please make this happen.
Show threadSaltPhoenixDec 15, 2022
@Are0h I'd watch it
Show threadLars Marowsky-Brée 😷Dec 15, 2022
@Are0h All billionaires are afraid of a late night visit from Deadpool and his squeaky unicorn toy.
The movie does not further elaborate.
Show threadOrganizedTRexDec 15, 2022
Attn @Madeley !
Show threadMadeleyDec 17, 2022
@OrganizedTRex ALSO this would be so in keeping with the original 1930s Superman.
Show threadDanny BrownDec 17, 2022
@Are0h I'd read that.
Show threadpodkaynelivesDec 17, 2022
@Are0h I need this in my life!
Show thread[MESSAGE ME TO FOLLOW] greenDec 17, 2022
@Are0h I would wait in line for this. I have always disliked "superhero comics" but I would absolutely read the hell out of a series like this.
Show threadNephDec 17, 2022
@Are0h that would be an interesting story indeed
Show threadCoach Pāṇini ®Dec 17, 2022
@Are0h 🔥
Show threadAstridDec 17, 2022
@Are0h Poison Ivy would switch sides at this point and join the justice league
Show threadmatsimpskDec 17, 2022
@Are0h
Show threadCay-Eric SchimanskiDec 17, 2022
@Are0h You know what Twain said: Fiction must be believable...