SheldonDec 8, 2022

I woke up at 7pm today. Tomorrow I'll probably get up at 9pm. Around this time next week, I'll be waking up at 7am.

This is normal for me. I have a rare-ish circadian rhythm disorder known as #Non24. My sleep cycle doesn't track with the sun. It's not at all rare amongst people who are blind, but it's rare amongst sighted people.

I also suspect it's actually more common than believed & there are people out there reputed to be lazy, immature, or erratic when they just can't sleep normally.

Show threadIrvin LinDec 8, 2022

@sysop408 I was just chatting with @OldUncleMike about this! He also has a Non24 circadian rhythm.

I have a delayed sleep syndrome that shifts my circadian cycle back so I normally go to sleep at 2-3am and wake up 9-10am.

But it’s mostly a 24-25 hour cycle that I can keep in check. I just have a hard time syncing with most folks during regular biz hours. I think non24 and delayed/skewed circadian cycles are definitely more common, but as you said, people just get called lazy or whatever…

Show threadOldandCrankyDec 11, 2022
@eatthelove @sysop408 @OldUncleMike Interesting. I've always had odd sleeping habits that I've always just called insomnia. As a young woman, I fell asleep around 2:00 AM and woke around 9:00 AM. Normal hours were hard for me, as well. It affected my life in odd ways. I tended to work second shift a lot when I worked in hospitals. That was fine, business hours were impossible for me.
Show threadIrvin Lin

@Oldandcranky YES. A lot of folks think they have insomnia, when it just a different circadian rhythm.

When I discovered the term "delayed sleep phase syndrome" everything clicked. I had been going through life as if I was permanently jet-lagged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

Shifting to a freelance work-at-home lifestyle and allowing myself to sleep my body's natural rhythm was life changing. I was no longer mentally and physically exhausted all the time.

@sysop408 @OldUncleMike

Delayed sleep phase disorder - Wikipedia

Dec 11, 2022 at 1:04amWeb
Show threadMadame XimonDec 11, 2022

@eatthelove @Oldandcranky @sysop408 @OldUncleMike

DSPS/N24 person here. If anything disrupts my natural sleep pattern (3am to 11am/noon), especially trying to get up early to sync w/ diurnal folks' expectations, it sends my sleep cycle wildly out of control. My sleep cycle tends to creep forward a little on its own, and if I just let myself "free run" it can have me in completely N24 mode. But my body & mind seem happiest and healthiest when I'm sleeping in that 3am to 11am/noon sweet spot.

Show threadMadame XimonDec 11, 2022

@eatthelove @Oldandcranky @sysop408 @OldUncleMike

I am also of the opinion that such non-diurnal sleep patterns are more common than most people think. I think having members of one's society with diverse sleep patterns is an evolutionary advantage to keep predators at bay and care for more vulnerable members (young, old, ill). The moralizing about sleep patterns seems like pure idiocy to me, and it sure causes misery for most of the DSPS/N24 people I've encountered.

Show threadOldandCrankyDec 11, 2022
@madameximon @eatthelove @sysop408 @OldUncleMike this makes perfect sense.
Show threadIrvin LinDec 11, 2022

@madameximon

100% agree. An friend once coined the term “free range sleep” allowing your body to sleep when it’s tired and not because of societal expectations. I have fully embraced it.

All that said, I understand my privilege that I can do that. I have a job that (mostly) let’s me make my own hours, as well as a husband that fully understand and supports my non-traditional sleep patterns. Not everyone had that luxury.

@Oldandcranky @OldUncleMike @sysop408

Show threadOldandCrankyDec 11, 2022
@eatthelove @madameximon @OldUncleMike @sysop408 Yeah- one of the reasons I never finished my graduate degree was that I had to work my way through- be present for 8:00 AM classes, and then work second shift at the hospital (psych nursing). I just couldn't do both when I never fell asleep until 3:00. My sleeping schedule is more "normal" in my old age, but still weird.
Show threadIrvin LinDec 11, 2022

@Oldandcranky oh! Yikes! That’s sounds exhausting.

And I’m sure the advice you ALWAYS got was “just go to bed early!”

As if that was helpful at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@madameximon @sysop408 @OldUncleMike

Show threadOldandCrankyDec 11, 2022
@eatthelove @madameximon @sysop408 @OldUncleMike exactly!
Show threadPrickly Pam (D-PA)Jul 26, 2023

@eatthelove @madameximon @Oldandcranky @OldUncleMike @sysop408

Right.

I also have a husband who accepts my sleep patterns. Doesn't understand them, but accepts them.

I'm very lucky in that regard.

I had a friend who called her husband lazy and DIVORCED HIM, for Christ's sake, because of his sleep patterns. I tried to explain why he was not lazy, but she wouldn't believe me. I felt so sad for him.

Show threadSheldonDec 12, 2022

@madameximon how did you figure out that you bounce between DSPS & #Non24 & how'd you figure out your ideal sleep times?

Have any tricks that help you figure out how to get back on track once you've started to free run?

I wear a Fitbit to track my sleep & HR. It helps with minor deviations, but once I go off course it's sometimes months of trying to find it again. Seeing my resting HR creep up & up is a giveaway that I'm off track. Fitbit body temp tracking hasn't been as helpful.

Show threadMadame XimonDec 12, 2022
@sysop408 The first time I started free-running was during winter break in college, and my sleep cycle ran forward for an entire month. Thankfully I got it back to something sort of stable by the time the semester started, but it did negatively impact my grades that semester. That's when I started paying attention to the possibility that my nocturnal cycle could turn into something even harder to manage.
Show threadMadame XimonDec 12, 2022
@sysop408 Figuring out my ideal sleep times has been the result of doing a lot of gig work over the course of 3 decades, and having severe struggles any time I got a "normal" job. I can push through a day schedule on a temporary (1-2 day) basis, but the older I get, the less that works. I've also had chronic sleep deprivation for much of that time, and I'm certain that contributed to my cancer battle (I'm in remission now).
Show threadMadame XimonDec 12, 2022

@sysop408 Since I don't want cancer to come back, I am protective about my sleep, but of course the diurnal world does not respect that. So, I have an assortment of herbal sleep aids that I cycle through to avoid dependence on any one.

Getting back on track during a free run is tough. Finding physical activities to wear myself out with is the only thing that consistently helps, though monitoring caffeine & sugar intake to maximize the crash can sometime be useful too.