Steven BeschlossI'm old enough to remember that respecting and defending the Constitution was the most basic expectation of every citizen, let alone someone running for president. Even after everything we've been through, the idea that Republicans will stick with a man who flagrantly demands the Constitution be discarded to install him into office: Infuriating.
SocialistStan@StevenBeschloss Why exactly should we defend a document written by 18th century slave owners? It doesn't even guarantee a right to food and housing, we can and should do better.
Dr Dan Marshall@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss Because the Constitution allows for reform. It is relatively easy to overthrow a government. Building a new republic on the ashes of the old is much more difficult. If you can't win an election, what makes you think you can win a revolution?
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss Because people have control over the course of a revolution, elections are a rubber stamp for whomever the parties want in charge.
The constitution allows for only small incremental reforms that don't threaten those in power, you can't build a new system under the old one.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss Have you studied revolutions? They eat their own young.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss Didn't the constitution you defend come from a revolution?
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss Technically, no. A lot of historians prefer to call it the War of American Independence rather than a true revolution. Arguably, the US has never seen a revolution, and the UK hasn't had one since the days of Cromwell, with the possible exception of the Glorious Revolution.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss Lets run with the assumption the American Revolution was not a real revolution then. I disagree with that assessment, but since it was a revolution fought by ordinary people on behalf of the landowner class it was clearly not a democratic revolution anyway. The constitution it produced reflects this.
If that's the case, isn't it time the US had a democratic revolution?
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss If you believe in US elections you may find this study interesting.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss I am aware of this study. But I repeat: If you can't win an election, why do you think you can win a revolution? Are bullets cheaper than ballots? Do you think "the people" will still be in charge when the dust settles?
Do you know how the Iranian Revolution started, just to pick one example? Do not call up that which you cannot put back down.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss You can't elect a system out of power, that requires a revolution.
Calling up what can't be put back down is exactly the point, destroy the old system and a new one will emerge.
Portugal 1974, Rojava 2012, Ukraine 2014, just a few examples of democratic revolutions, there are scores of others.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss When a revolution comes, it is too late to stop it. The avalanche will have already begun, it will be too late for the pebbles to vote. I'm told Lenin once said that anybody who makes plans for after the revolution is a reactionary. Are you a reactionary?
And does Ukraine still have corporations?
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss Ukraine doesn't have a Russian puppet regime anymore, it would have been great if their revolution had been anti-capitalist as well, but that was for them to decide. The 'pebbles' voted as you might say...
Lenin was an authoritarian who made plans for after the revolution he successfully carried out and made himself dictator.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss If you want to defend the US constitution you should go hang out with the other conservatives and corporate dems. I'm really sick of talking to people who make excuses for the establishment.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss Then don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out, and have fun hanging out with Trump. If you want to criticize my Constitution, go ahead, and I'll even listen to you. I'm a liberal, and free speech is part of the contract. But if you're going to take up arms against her, we're going to have a problem.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss
One day there will be a revolution in this country and we'll have a democracy, till then I have nothing to say to someone who won't discuss in good faith and who wants to back a constitution where 400 people control the lives of 400 million.
Have fun living under your oligarchs you fucking conservative, you deserve each other.
As for YOUR constitution, don't expect me to pledge allegiance to it and you won't have a problem.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss There can't be an authentic yes if you aren't in a position to say no. But, keep in mind "all enemies, foreign and domestic." God willing, I will not be the first to break faith.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss But, keep in mind "all enemies, foreign and domestic." God willing, I will not be the first to break faith.
Sounds like an Oathkeeper, lol. Like I said, have fun keeping faith with your oligarchs, I won't. As long as you defend the establishment and its constitution you are denying millions the ability to live under a system of their own choosing and to have an authentic 'yes' under democracy.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss don't dirty my name by associating me with those traitors. They are not oath keepers, they are oath breakers.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss You are using the same rhetoric, reactionary defense of the established order.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss With one crucial difference. I intend to honor my oaths, inshallah.
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss We are not on the same side. You're a conservative whose pledged to the old order of things and I'm a libertarian socialist that wants to over throw the old system and institute a democracy.
It's my mistake thinking I could or should dialog with you. Before I block you I want you to know, conservatism has no future, you're wasting your time.
@SocialistStan @StevenBeschloss Since you have yet to take arms against my Constitution, to the best of my knowledge, I would be glad to continue dialog with you. I would appreciate it if you could be less insulting though. I am a conservative? Perhaps I am. But what is it am I attempting to conserve?
@DrDanMarshall @StevenBeschloss If you're aware you're living under the rule of an oligarchy, don't care, and don't believe your society has ever had a real revolution (I would argue it was a revolution, just not one for the people), and still defend the constitution those anti-democratic oligarchs put in place, then that just makes you another authoritarian.