Daniel LakensIn the next few days we will get to see if there is a difference between Mastodon and Twitter. On Twitter, people are already calling for the editor of Perspectives on Psychological Science to be replaced because of this: https://psyarxiv.com/xk4yu. Let's see if we get the same dog-piling and outrage here, or if this platform works differently.
SLLancaster@lakens How dare people be outraged by outrageous behavior!?
@SLLancaster Have you ever read 'So you've been publicly shamed' by Jon Ronson? https://www.amazon.com/So-Youve-Been-Publicly-Shamed/dp/1594634017 I can recommend it. You will never look with anything but disgust at an online outrage mob.
Liadh Timmins@lakens @SLLancaster what do you propose we do instead in order to solve the problem that had been identified at POPS then?
@liadh @SLLancaster Well, there is always the option to have a normal conversation instead. How do you resolve problems in your offline life? Maybe we can use those solutions online as well?
Natasha A Tonge@lakens @liadh @SLLancaster Agree that pile-ons get really uncomfortable to watch, esp. the sarcastic tweets. But I wonder: 1) where's the threshold for pile-on and 2) about in-person parallels. If many ppl are upset & express their honest negative reactions, is it still a pile on? Is it the language/quote tweets/subtweets that make it feel more antagonistic than in-person criticism? Could inperson vs online pile-on just be difference of private vs public shaming?
@Nattonge @liadh @SLLancaster Spoken like a true scientist :) I also don't know the necessary and sufficient conditions of a pile-on vs. people collectively expressing a negative evaluation. The latter is important, and creating awareness is also important.
The APS already indicated they will examine it. For me, all calls on social media that the editor needs to be removed from his position are probably too close to a pile on.
@Nattonge @liadh @SLLancaster I also think calling this racist behavior is too far in that direction (there is a large US European value difference here - actually the same one that led to these commentaries, I predict, even though it is not discussed).
What do you think? I had some hope a new platform (that did not adopt quote tweeting to prevent pile-ons) would lead us to rethink these things. Where do you see a line?
@lakens @liadh @SLLancaster this might be where personal preferences and experiences matter. I've never been a public figure & with that caveat, think behind-the-scenes outrage isn't a pile on by the public shaming definition but seems equally uncomfortable. Imagining this alternative: everyone emails the editor private calls for resignation with list of perceived offenses detailed. If the goal is to preserve an individual's comfort, both seem to fail
@lakens @liadh @SLLancaster regarding the line for calling something racist - I often question how that US-Europe difference unfolds. I would be most curious about how/whether non-White Europeans in various countries have a similar threshold as non-White Americans for labeling discrimination and/or racism in a descriptive encounter. I strongly suspect there are commonalities just also wondering about convergence on definitions/where the line is drawn
@Nattonge @lakens @SLLancaster I also wonder how it varies in white Europeans. My experience as a white European who has lived in cities of various sizes is that white Europeans are more likely to be willing to call behaviour racist the more contact they have with non-white Europeans.
@Nattonge @lakens @SLLancaster frankly I think the culture difference is that Europeans are substantially behind USians in terms of racial progress with regards to attitudes, but because we have stronger social safety nets and less lethal police forces our attitudes do not cause as much damage.