Fascism is about getting you to debate people's right to exist.
If you're debating, you're losing. Because human rights are non-negotiable! Some people can't decide whether #Ye is "mentally ill," or an actual Nazi. It doesn't matter! Once he questioned Jews' right to exist, and embraced the swastika / Hitler, he should lose the right to speak in civilized society.
Fascist filth being disseminated in public spaces means we've crossed a dangerous milestone on the road to death camps. #antifa
@sean Surely there's some place in between "debate people's right to exist" (Agreed!) and "lose the right to speak in civilized society."
Keep pushing people outside of "civilized society" and you end up with an extremely uncivilized army looking to tear everything down.
@sean You're probably right. Maybe we can push them into camps to isolate them from civilized society?
Oh wait...
@trentbaur It's a bit discouraging to have to continually reiterate the paradox of tolerance.
Perhaps it's because we're 80 years past the Holocaust and the consequences of allowing genocidal ideologies to flourish (without severe consequences) have passed out of people's living memory?
@sean There are more options than the binary of "appeasement" and "shunning/disassociating."
All of the shunning and "pushing out of civil society" has done nothing to reduce the resurgence of these ideologies, especially in a world where they can all just congregate in unseen corners of the internet. We have to come up with better strategies.
We haven't begun to impose consequences on fascists. We're much too tolerant, and we might lose it all as a result. The safety of free society depends on denying fascists the capacity to use civil liberties to destroy civil liberties.
Germany has strict laws about Nazi propaganda because they still remember.
The US can't seem to figure out how to crack down on modern fascism. Nazis absolutely love it when civil libertarians defend them on free speech grounds.
Utterly insane.
@trentbaur Any means necessary, including deplatforming, cutting them off from payment services, treating their genocidal anti-semitic remarks as the terrorist threats they are.
Confiscating weapons. Using every resource of the federal government to infiltrate and disrupt their networks, arrest their leaders, put them on trial, (like we just did with the oaf creepers).
In other words, treat this like the war that it is, before it goes fully kinetic.
@sean It's one thing when you're talking about small groups at work, even a couple thousand. Those approaches might work in that case.
But there are a million or more people that we're talking about. The calculus of what's possible, practical and feasible completely changes in that reality.
@trentbaur The only calculus that matters where fascism is concerned, is whether you've decided to fight, or surrender.
As long as someone like you is arguing that they're too big to isolate, then that's surrender of civilized society.
I already told you how to win: it begins with deciding to fight. It begins with recognizing the enemy for the existential threat that it is. It requires a concerted effort by government, corporations, and individuals to defend democracy and human rights, without compromise or intellectual surrender.
@sean I agree with everything in this post except for the implicit, "Ready, Shoot, Aim!"
Discounting anyone who doesn't agree with you 100% as being on the other side is the path to ruin.
The target is always and forever, Nazis. In case I wasn't clear.
It's not about agreement or disagreement. It's about whether we have the collective will to preserve civilized society.
Or whether we want to weasel and waffle and defend the rights of Nazis to undermine everything we value.
@sean Also, regarding your constant use of the word Nazi, the "Nazis" appreciate your cooperation.
The goal was always to move #Nazis inside the Overton Window. Mission accomplished. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
Trent, Jim is a good friend of mine. I wonder if he'd like to weigh in on this conversation?
While we're waiting for that...
Trent, I think my point is, that I'm finished talking to you. Bye!
@sean @trentbaur I think both of you are trying to do the right thing and are talking past each other out of passion.
I agree with Sean that we can’t be afraid of calling Nazis what they are and that we should be ruthless about preventing them from operating in open society.
But I also understand Trent’s POV that we need a strategy and a plan and punching Nazis is not enough.
These are good arguments to have. Don’t throw up your hands. Somewhere in between is the right answer.
🇺🇦 Sean Prophet ⚛
Trent 
🇨🇦
Jim Stewartson 
Wilford Snibble Snabble