Catherynne M. Valente
So…I AM enjoying Andor, but the hype around it is a little out of hand. It’s strange how many times I’ve read some version of: “It’s so great because it doesn’t feel like Star Wars!”
I do rather LIKE Star Wars.
And the problem with going adult gritty/realistic on this universe is I start to have to ask pesky worldbuilding questions I do not ask of more YA media, much like Hunger Games & how Panem makes no sense.
I’m happy for that galaxy to have discovered bricks, though. Bricks are nice.
Nov 28, 2022 at 3:26pmWeb
Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 28, 2022
Even w/ 500 chars, I need ROOM for my questions. Most of which probably have EU answers, I know Star Wars. I’ve written for it!
Why are there SO MANY humans? Even indigenous populations on faraway planets are human
Why do all these shitty planets look the same? Mos Eisley with a new color filter? Is there a prefab startup kit the empire provides? It’s like video game levels, same buildings, different sky.
There are Harry Potter levels of camping in modern SW. IT’S SPACE BUT WE ALL LIVE OUTSIDE
Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 28, 2022

There’s a lot of talk about the empire stripping planets for resources etc…but like…why? An entire planet’s resources are almost unimaginably vast, let alone asteroids & uninhabitable planets. There never seem to be Roman-style building projects that need all that, they don’t build up colonies very well at all. Is it just money? If you can strip a planet for parts how meaningful is money actually?

And if you have all that money why do you need to force people to mine for you? Pay them better?

Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 28, 2022

And before you say they’re an evil empire obviously they do evil—1. It was a Republic a minute ago (which timeline was always too short) & all this stuff has clearly been going on longer than 14 years

2nd, that’s my point. “Evil gonna max out evil” works for simple stories, but if we’re to take it seriously, then I gotta ask how this is the most efficient way to monetize planetary holdings. Rome did better, hell the CA gold rush did better.

No bread OR circuses? That’s how you get ants/rebels.

Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 28, 2022

There also just seem to be relatively few people in the Andor universe. Everyone knows each other, across PLANETARY SYSTEMS, there’s only cities & crowds (sort of) on Coruscant, the rebellion seems to literally just have sticks & mud to fight with (only 4 eps in no spoils) and when there are populations indigenous to a planet, there’s only like 50 of them & they’re always at bows & arrows level technology. Despite a galaxy with tens of thousands of years of spacefaring history

It just feels odd

Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 28, 2022

Seems like there should be indigenous cultures who could at least rival the Pueblos or other advanced cultures? We always see them fishing with their hands in streams & hand-dying their clothes the same color.

Where’s the grand settlements, the earth-moving projects, the advanced cultures, even if they hadn’t achieved space flight? Does the empire leave those alone & only crush hand-fishers with matching pants?

I AM WAY IN THE WEEDS ON THIS

Show threadMichaelPhillipsNov 28, 2022
@catvalente maybe they are just getting around to this last tier of inhabited worlds.
Like they've spent the last decade subjugating worlds in a specific order from highest tech to lowest tech and they're just now getting to the we don't have agriculture worlds.
As for the why, Sheeve has opinions and a distinct lack of anyone willing to argue with him because he's as kill the ones who don't say yes as vader
Show threadMichaelPhillipsNov 28, 2022
@catvalente I think a bunch of your questions could very well boil down to Sheeve having finally gotten essentially total power. And being a bit of a muskrat. While he was chasing his goals, he was efficient and ruthless and really quite clever, but now that he's there all his late night whims end up being what he acts on, and there's no overwhelming danger to keep him focused
Show threadJesse Goldman 🆒Nov 28, 2022
@catvalente I think it’s a testament to the quality of the show that you bring all this stuff up and it finally sounds like an option they actually could explore!
Show threadChaspapNov 28, 2022
@catvalente not the most authoritative of sources, but it might get you started https://www.history.com/news/native-american-cahokia-chaco-canyon
Ancient Native Americans Once Thrived in Bustling Urban Centers

One settlement in modern-day Illinois hosted a population of around 20,000, while another featured multiple-story buildings.

HISTORY
Show threadDave HoggNov 30, 2022
@catvalente This thread is going on the list of the 782 reasons I adore you. 💜
Show threadChris Belanger has movedNov 28, 2022
@catvalente Similarly on the timeline - why does everyone mock Vader for believing in the Force? The Jedi are mostly gone, but it living memory they were the primary peacekeeping force in the Empire. How does no one believe they existed??
Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 28, 2022

@Feasoron exactly, it’s so bizarre! Like you know he goes around force-choking everyone who didn’t move the slippery floor sign fast enough, everyone can see him use the force all the time. Also ONLY 20 YEARS AGO THE GALAXY WAS LOUSY WITH JEDI. HEAPS AOC people were alive for that & remember it. It’s simply not long enough for something verifiably real to pass into legend. Especially when we see kids can manifest powers any old time in TLJ!

2002 was 20 years ago!

Show threadHeather LauraNov 28, 2022
@Feasoron @catvalente If everyone knows everyone lile it seems then they *should* all remember and believe in Jedi. If people were in a more.spread out realistic way of galactic movements it would be easy to think "those people over there" were made up.
Can't have both.
Show threadMarls MedusaNov 28, 2022
@catvalente totally, like even if you imagine it all goes towards military and police state technical projects, putting a garrison on every planet and building uncountable super weapons and probe droids and stuff
I think one thing we genuinely miss in all Empire era Star Wars is any hint of what the propaganda looks like, both on a media level and on a public works level — what’s the alleged carrot they’re dangling beyond the word “ORDER”
REBELS had “Empire Day”, that’s about it
Show threadMariaNov 28, 2022

@catvalente
The Empire does happen to be building a space station the size of a small moon at the moment, a military-industrial complex needs resources.

We could ask the same question of any number of corporations on Earth today, why doesn't Amazon just pay its warehouse workers a living wage and let them use the bathroom at work?

Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 28, 2022

@almanzam yeah, but a single planet or handful of asteroids could provide plenty to build the Death Star. They seem to strip worlds a LOT.

And Amazon is still working with a society whose resources are limited. I’m saying that if you have the ability to strip everything valuable from a WORLD, you’re rapidly approaching post-scarcity. As an empire, Rome knew it cost less to let people do their own thing as long as they paid taxes.

Show threadMariaNov 28, 2022
@catvalente
Valid. But the empire isn't Rome, it's far more like nazi germany, fascists with little concern for state-building. You're completely right that their policies manage to be both evil and short sighted, but it only ends up lasting 20(?) years before it falls, because its megalomaniacal dictator decided to set up shop on his giant WMD before it was even finished.
Show threadKevin MarksNov 28, 2022
@catvalente They are building a moon-sized Death Star, presumably that needs a lot of raw materials and fabrication. The Soviet Union didn't need to kill people to build the White Sea Canal, they did it to show their power over people.
Ferrix has a Northern Ireland feel, where the repression is escalated with its bureaucratic logic.
I'm interested to hear what you think when you have seen the full series.
Show threadMagess Nov 28, 2022
@catvalente The comparison to Rome did make me realize that no one has any roads. Like paved roads. There's either the zero roads of the airspeeders on Coruscant or the dirt roads of Tatooine and Ferrix.
Show threadCatherynne M. ValenteNov 29, 2022
@Magess wow that’s a great observation!
Show threadMagess Nov 29, 2022
@catvalente I guess if you don't have cars with wheels you don't NEED paved roads, but it does seem to leave everyone walking around in the dirt, when they could at least decide that mud sucks and they'd rather not walk around in it.