Martin NuttyNov 22, 2022

Excellent episode from David McWilliams with John Davis on the idea of an island of Ireland populated by 10 million people.

How likely is it that Ireland will eventually exceed the maximal population of 8 million recorded in 1841 before #TheGreatHunger?

What are the implications in terms of an increase in immigration, better education, improved transportation, and more robust healthcare?

#IrishPodcast #IrishEconomics

https://lnns.co/ML6GlugiPdR

Show threadGalactic MenaceNov 22, 2022
@mnutty if not for British genocide, predicted population of Ireland would be today between 25-27 million people.
Show threadMartin NuttyNov 22, 2022

@Orangejuice

Difficult to know how Ireland’s population would have tracked or was famine inevitable when coupled with dire conditions of impoverishment

On the applicability of the word genocide to #TheGreatHunger, I’m wary of its usage which I think implies planning and intentional outcome by those in power. I’m not convinced that was the case, more like mass culpable homicide. Whatever the term there’s no denying the impact or the tragedy or the callous disregard for life.

Show threadGalactic MenaceNov 22, 2022
@mnutty I’ve seen calculations few months ago and I can’t find just now, maybe I don’t remember numbers correctly but it was shocking how much impact “famine” had on Irish population. And for the record I won’t shy away from calling what it was, genocide not the one and only committed by the neighbours.. they come up with concentration camps way before WWII, and many more other atrocities.
Show threadMartin NuttyNov 22, 2022

@Orangejuice

I'm far from lining up with the virtues of colonial rule and associated cruelties perpetrated on our people over past centuries.

The catastrophe of #TheGreatHunger is likely poorly understood these days as it retreats into the historical background. I'm a believer that cross-generational trauma is still haunts descendants of the victims.

I line up with Fin Dwyer on whether the tragedy should be considered a genocide

#IrishHistory

https://irishhistorypodcast.ie/was-the-great-famine-a-genocide/

Was the Great Famine a genocide? • Irish history podcast

This podcast tackles one of the most controversial aspects of Irish history - Was the Great Famine a Genocide by the British Government?

Irish history podcast
Show threadGalactic Menace
@mnutty I get how I might sound radical and I get your point, and if you have any more links I would love to learn more. As for generational trauma, agree with you 100%, as a student in human psychology I can see how it can be passed throughout generations and affect how people are in Ireland today. I would also add to the mixture the centuries of being ruled by a foreign power and what impact on the nation’s mindset today it had?
Nov 22, 2022 at 10:11pmWeb
Show threadMartin NuttyNov 22, 2022

@Orangejuice I don’t think you’re radical at all. Indeed many Irish would line up with genocide viewpoint.

Interestingly it’s a view that might be held more broadly by the #IrishAmericsn community and as Fin Dwyer mentions in his podcast episode, #TheGreatHunger is taught in certain school systems as part of a curriculum on genocide.

Terrible colonial wrongs were perpetrated on the Irish people. The legacy of being a victimized people in Ireland is strong to this day.

Show threadPeter GrayNov 22, 2022
@mnutty @Orangejuice Martin, having worked on the Great Famine for more than 30 years and been through the documentary records inside and out I have to agree with you. No serious historian of the Great Famine accepts the 'genocide' interpretation, which has its roots in the nationalist polemics of the later 19th century. That is not to say that British policy was not heartless and often driven by what we would now call neoliberal ideological obsessions - the evidence bears that out strongly.
Show threadPeter GrayNov 22, 2022
Blair was essentially right in his 1997 'apology' - the colonial state failed the people of Ireland and thereby lost whatever legitimacy it claimed, but that is not the same thing as intentional mass murder - and indeed this simplistic line distracts from the real debate about economic ideology.
Show threadMartin NuttyNov 22, 2022

@Orangejuice @petergray47 What was particularly cruel was the adherence to Laissez-faire economics in the face of the devastation.

Anytime I hear the trumpeting of free markets as a solution to all of societies ills, I remind them of the epic failure that was #TheGreatHunger and how that tragedy makes the case for significant government intervention in times of crisis.

#FreeMarkets #Economics #Famine #IrishHistory