texpatNov 19, 2022
Aral Balkan

I’m beginning to see quite a few “this is a positive space, there is no place for negativity here” style posts (especially by newer folks) so I want to hopefully clear something up:

This is also a space to be protected. From fascists, bigots, etc., and also from corporate capture (unless you want to watch it turn into what the greater web turned into. Some of us lived through that once. Would be nice not to again.) Opposing such things—and vocally if need be—is not a negative; it is a positive.

Nov 19, 2022 at 10:48amWeb
Show threadNicolas PettiauxNov 19, 2022
@aral well said
Show threadCN Ó RaghallaighNov 19, 2022

@aral

anyone not wanting negativity in their home timeline has a lot of options in addition to unfollowing people.

Be adventurous! Explore your setting page and discover your superpowers!

Remember there's no algorithms- your timeline is your to shape.

Show threadChristine 🏳️‍⚧️🦋Nov 19, 2022
@aral I thought this was a "talk about what you want as long as you follow the rules" space. I talk about transphobia which might seem negative to some but if I don't then I'd be silent about it which I refuse to do.
Show threadMackajNov 19, 2022

@christine

It is.

The difference here is there are no algorithms that are going to flag your toots to anyone who may want to fight with you. Plus people here are more likely to use the filter/mute/block tools provided to opt out if they don't want to engage with a subject. And they're encouraged to do so to keep their timelines healthy.

@aral

Show threadChristine 🏳️‍⚧️🦋Nov 19, 2022
@mackaj @aral oh yeah, I blocked thousands of transphobes on the bird site. I'd block the person who said something transphobic and then everyone who liked what they said.
Show threadMackajNov 19, 2022

@christine

Hopefully that's not a situation you'll bump into much here. Instance admins can block individual users or whole instances if there's a congregation of people like that in one place. So can you. Open the 3-dot menu on someone's profile and it's the last option on the list.

@aral

Show threadChristine 🏳️‍⚧️🦋Nov 19, 2022
@mackaj @aral thank you
Show threadMelania Ichigo IchieNov 19, 2022
@christine @aral Speaking about transphobia isn't negative. Information, awareness and debate about actual problems are necessary things. Ignore them cause it's not a happy subject would be as toxic as fack xD I like this place cause everyone can speak about what they want but no one is answering in a toxic way or disrespecting even if they have different opinions. That makes this place perfect for activisms since people is not afraid of sharing their points of view and that encourage empathy.
Show threadBart Janssens 🇧🇪Nov 19, 2022
@aral I saw this because it was boosted by @satan 🙃
Show threadAral BalkanNov 19, 2022

@janssens_bart @satan

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Show threadjoene 🏴Nov 19, 2022
@aral Many times in my life when opposing things, or not fitting in, people told me 'don't be so negative'. Therefore I learned that terms like positivity and negativity are arbitrary or even social constructs as you like. I also learned that people who say 'always be positive in life' are not to be trusted.
Show threadAdam DallianceNov 19, 2022
@aral how dare they be so negative as to criticize people for being negative. Don't they know this is a positive place?
Show threadAral BalkanNov 19, 2022
@pre Haha, indeed :)
Show threadDeborahMaeveNov 19, 2022
@aral Otherwise it will be like the Book Club before the first bottle kicks in; all tentative politesse and passive aggression. See also @stux ref “reporting” vs. Just blocking or mute.
Show threadChristopherNov 19, 2022
@aral
The "chill vibes only" crowd can learn where the mute button is and fuck right off. They're not helping, which means...
Show threadGaelForceNov 19, 2022
@aral agreed but I am aware that I don’t want to live in an echo chamber, welcome dissent and cliche it maybe but one lads freedom fechter is anithers rebel..
Show threadMastermoobsNov 19, 2022

@aral

Great thread.

Show threadMoveTheMouseNov 19, 2022
@aral
Show threadJoshNov 19, 2022
@aral We’re all here for it!
Show threadP.U.F.Nov 19, 2022
@aral caveat: this doesn’t mean you can or should get protected from “people telling you that yes you’re the one being a duck here”
Show threadMike GNov 19, 2022
Sooner or later those with extreme views are going to turn up. For moderation and free speech to work some people are going to have to move to instances that support their views and block instances supporting opposite extremes.
But there’s going to be a lot more work for moderators
Show threadYoussef | يوسفNov 19, 2022
@aral Toxic positivity is a thing. I might be wrong but there's a difference between speaking against something that affected you, and other vague negative rants about politics. It's great to discuss politics of course. But hundreds of posts about how Trump is bad, no matter how true, are counter productive. It's especially annoying to those who do not live in the US. Twitter feeds on negativity so there is bound to be an overcorrection from those tired of it, but in time we'll have a balance
Show threadGaryTheGammaridNov 19, 2022
@aral Hearing ppl say the "this is a positive space" thing is odd to me. Yeah, now it is. It will not stay that way on its own. With more ppl comes more controversy and also everything left behind for now.
As you said, it happened at least once already.
Show threadDudley IrvinNov 19, 2022
@aral as a community, can we accept voices of different opinions or will we only accept opinions conforming to specific beliefs? Don’t judge, I abhor extremism in all its forms, there is no place for hate speech. But extremism is not unique to the far illiberal conservative right across the globe. The cancel culture of the far left is just as extreme. Remain open to different views. Somewhere in the middle is the path forward.
Show threadg2avityNov 19, 2022
@irvindri @aral Isn’t cancel culture the ultimate expression of the capitalist free market of ideas? You can put forth any idea you want. But I am free to not “buy it” or to associate with it. That is my freedom. And if others choose not to associate with it (your employer, for instance), that is a market reaction (a consequence, it you will) which is also an acceptable expression of their freedom in the marketplace of ideas.
Show threadJane AyersNov 19, 2022
@irvindri @aral Both-sides-ism is the thinking of weak minds.
Show threadTim ClancyNov 19, 2022
@aral it’s called the right of free association
Show threadTom #FBPENov 19, 2022
@aral Thank you, this begins to firm up my view of Mastodon.
Show threadMBishiopNov 19, 2022
@aral a space to be protected indeed. Fingers crossed
Show threadLWelbornNov 19, 2022
@aral I agree. Let’s try to keep it safe from the fascists and the liars.
Show threadTa'verenNov 19, 2022
@aral I only hope in all this civility we keep our ability to have some knee slapping, spit your coffee out fun! 😅
Show threadKatmaNov 19, 2022
@aral Thank you for this post. Interesting thread.
Show threadMax HardwoodNov 19, 2022
@aral One of the main features of Mastodon is you should join an instance based upon their moderation rules. The instance can moderate content for you and anything in your feeds will reflect that and what you follow
Show threadToni AittoniemiNov 19, 2022
@aral As applies to politics, applies to public spaces!
Show threadJane AyersNov 19, 2022
@gimulnautti @aral Ugh — both-sides-ism. They aren’t equivalent.
Show threadToni AittoniemiNov 19, 2022
@janeayers @aral To fully grasp the meaning of this analogy, look closely at the separation between the hamster wheel and the viewpoint. Then place the argument you just stated at the viewpoint of the hamster.

In other words: Let the left spin the wheel left and the right to the right. People can’t change what they like. And let those few of us who see the totality, try place those who can not, in positions where they push the wheel mostly in the same direction. 😃
Show threadGJGambleNov 19, 2022
@aral 100%
Show threadPaulMcC631Nov 19, 2022
@aral agreed
Show threadb1gpapaNov 19, 2022
@aral It would help if folks could refrain, if possible, from copying and broadcasting the toots/tweets/posts/reports that fuel their outrage. A side reference is enough: most of us will know and sympathize (or not, I guess) with what you’re talking about, and you won’t be boosting (in every sense) their exposure. It doesn’t help me to block some clown and then be faced with an unblockable screen shot of their latest mental flatulence to harsh my mellow.
Pant, pant…I’ll sit down now.
Show threadIanNov 19, 2022

@aral

I agree with everything you said, but can we also include "communists" alongside "fascists"?

I have violent flashbacks from the trauma my family went through due to communism in my country. I have noticed there is a pattern of denouncing only one ideological extreme but not the other.

I just want to make sure you are truly serious about this.

Show threadSpeakerToManagersNov 19, 2022
@aral
I am both physically disabled and have had to deal with depression over the years. Being tone-policed by people insisting I should be positive and not mention my disabilities is a form of emotional violence and erasure IMO. And it is very common in the social discourse of the US, where I and many other members of the Anglophone net live.
1 / 2
Show threadSpeakerToManagersNov 19, 2022

@aral

In some respects this issue is similar to the problem of people insisting on CWs to hide talk of racism because it makes them uncomfortable. Granted there is a tension betweeen the need to provide warnings to people who might be reminded of trauma by a particular subject and the need not to erase whole categories of people and discourse.

2 / 3

Show threadSpeakerToManagersNov 19, 2022

@aral

. But in the case where the erasure serves only to keep people from being made uncomfortable by a subject they simply don’t wish to discuss, I strongly believe that allowing the discourse to be both accepted and visible takes precedence.

3 /3

Show threadAKDrawsNov 19, 2022
@aral seems to me like some people do not know that toxic positivity exists too, and that it can be pretty harmful in the long run, because it forbids criticism.
Show threadCommodoreSpenceNov 19, 2022
@aral Well the nice part about this being FOSS is that if some corp tries to buy the devs then we just fork and ignore as the community runs all the servers.
Show threadWilliam GunnNov 19, 2022
@aral protected by who? I know what the people receiving moderation reports are thinking, and it's not "please send a moderation report about every slight annoyance ".
Show threadMike GNov 19, 2022
@aral any recommendations?
Show threadLiz Beresford-DavisNov 19, 2022
@aral I am all for positivity Aral, let’s keep it lovely 🥰
Show threadHermesNov 19, 2022
@aral I'm new here, and one question I have is how mastodon will protect we legitimate non-hateful users from having to read posts or toots (or whatever they're called) from Russian troll farm users. Those same people who apparently infliltrated Twitter and helped to make it the cesspool of negative comment that it was? Won't they simply come here now and carry on? Using phoney identities?
Show threadAral BalkanNov 19, 2022
@hermes Instance administrators here are usually very proactive in suspending such accounts and the way it’s designed means that it’s much harder to use it in that fashion. Will folks try? I’m sure they will. And I’m sure we’ll adapt accordingly.
Show threadHermesNov 19, 2022
@aral That's somewhat comforting. But it raises another question... what protections are there that these same national, institutional disinformation agencies (and each major power seems to fund them) won't flood the fediverse with seemingly-innocuous servers. In which the "bad guys" control the administration, and hence have the power to shape the dialog?
Show threadIAmDavidNov 19, 2022
@aral Here here!
Show threadSome rights reservedNov 19, 2022

@aral I see your point, but I definitely see the need to not be positive about some things that are terrible. Unrelenting positivity is photos of pets, weather, and food. Anthropologists might find some useful information in that, but we live in a world that needs changes and vocally advocating for that is good.

Negativity towards people in the form of attacks or ad hominem... that's bad for good discourse. I hope people are able to straddle the line between attacking arguments and not people

Show threadSaint Baal-MAŠNov 19, 2022
@aral frickin a. The "Paradox of Tolerance" set in motion.
Show threadEmmaNov 19, 2022
@aral Yes, sir!
Show threadMike FraserNov 19, 2022
@aral A lot of people don't get that your instance is your community. Too many people are globing on to the big instances wrongly thinking it gives them more exposure. Find a community that shares your values and protect that community! You can be a hate instance and still exist here, but you'll be an isolated island. That's the beauty of decentralized social media.
Show threadSaideNov 19, 2022
@aral you are right
Show threadcharles webster baerNov 19, 2022
@aral https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SieT1Cc5CkU&t=29s
baer24

YouTube