HavocNov 16, 2022
Thinking about circular economies and @hydroponictrash 's recent writing on modular repair and construction systems.
It'll be interesting to create a "reverse-LEGO" System, where System parts can be used to repair non-System products. Eventually, Ship-of-Theseus style, products would end up becoming entirely made of System parts as their old ones break and are replaced. To this end, you have to make sure the System is interoperable both with itself and with pre-existing products.
Further, it would be best if the System were not only easy to manufacture, but easy to acquire resources for. This is a big part of the #Junkpunk aesthetic, going out of your way to reuse pre-existing material. In the context of our System, this might involve anything from collecting screws of standard System size off non-System products, or searching for plastics to turn into stock for 3D printing. 3D printable printers and recyclable stock would be a HUGE jump towards making this a reality. #solarpunk
Show threadHydroponicTrash

@havoc Hell yeah, interoperability would be the biggest thing. A big gripe I have with most modular designs is that they are modular in their own ecosystem, but having a modular framework gives the guidelines enough to be able to have things work interoperabily, while also not needing to fit a need super strict standard or aesthetic.

Thankfully most stuff like screws are to a standard (for the most part) and can be reused. Plenty of proprietary stuff can't be reused though, especially if it was a planned obsolescence situation. But even then, we can look at it instead of broken, as just feedstock to use and remake into something else. Compared to just saying "eh fuck it it's broken", buying a new one while the old thing sits in a landfill for 500 years.

I've seen some amazing work by people making 3D printer filament recyclers that can turn some plastic bottles into 3D printing filament. Most of the same idea applies to most plastics. So when you print an object, and don't need it or it isn't repairable, chuck it in a shredder, melt it back down into fillament, make something new. No waste, no shipping, less impacts to the ecology. Way better than what we got going right now.

Nov 16, 2022 at 4:44pmWeb
Show threadHavocNov 16, 2022

@hydroponictrash
> "But even then, we can look at it instead of broken, as just feedstock to use and remake into something else."

EXACTLY. The capacity for true recycling (returning an item into original quality feedstock, as opposed to like turning paper into low grade cardboard) is going to be SO important. We need to mentally shift the perception of a broken item from "garbage" to "a pile of usable parts".

I'm reminded of the novel Walkaway, where they have 3D printers capable of using a tremendous range of printing materials. Rather than gathering new resources for printing stock, they just build machines capable of returning rebar/plastic/wiring back into feedstock. There's absolutely no shortage of "garbage" right now, so it's not unreasonable to think we could see this in reality someday.

Show threadgeographyNov 16, 2022
@havoc @hydroponictrash feels like there are physical limits to this. First of all recycling usually produces lower quality outputs (with aluminum maybe being the exception?); second, it still requires energy and materials, so the economy can never be fully circular (circularity gap); third, recycling produces waste, which accumulates somewhere
Show threadgeographyNov 16, 2022
@havoc @hydroponictrash that said, I’m all for #JunkPunk and reusing existing waste, as long as it’s not used as a justification for keeping things as they are in terms of production and consumption
Show threadHavocNov 16, 2022
@geography Definitely. For your first response I definitely agree, finding methods of recycling that DON'T lower quality (recycling vs downcycling) is going to be so important.
And not to worry, #junkpunk advocates for the halting of current production methods in favor of just using the crap we've already made under such an overproductive system.
Show threadHydroponicTrashNov 17, 2022

@geography @havoc
As a baseline: When this kind of stuff comes up I always try and clarify that I hate the way the world works right now and I think we need to cut material production and consumtion by getting rid of profit models and focusing on what benefits people and minimizes (or hopefully benefits) the ecology.

There are for sure physical limits, but alot of the limitations in recycling right now are because they aren't profitable. Assuming we stop new production of petrochemical based plastics, there are other ways of introducing virgin plastics into the mix to keep the final product from degrading, one example might be bioplastics made from plants, where we don't have to use petrochemicals to make things/add into other plastics to keep them in working order.

There is also growing research into new material design projects using mycelium as an alternative to a ton of non renewable objects. So that might open new avenues for material use that have a lower impact environmentally.

In terms of energy, we could shift our energy requirements away from fossil fuels and towards renewable methods that also don't alienate or impact people in the global south like photovoltaic solar panel production might do. (It's the paradox of creating green energy technology that actually requires more extraction and exploitation). So we might use hydroelectric, or passive solar to create heat to drive turbines, or biogas in areas that might not have water or good sun, there are alot of alternatives that we can use to generate energy that might offset our current ways of doing things.

A circular economy might not be 100% circular, but if we can close that gap compared to what we have now, cut consumerism, stop planned obsolescence, and find ways of reusing waste instead of letting it rot, we can get to a better place.

Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@hydroponictrash @havoc The opportunities for plastics recycling here are really phenomenal and we've barely scratched the surface of what's possible. At some point I'm going to be exploring high-quality direct-from-shredded-material printing.
Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@hydroponictrash @havoc This printer design, which started out as a joke thought experiment on how to print the fastest Benchy, in theory lets you do all kinds of unconventional recycling because you can put an unlimited-mass toolhead on it with no impact on motion system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXxFBjXW8SI
9:46 Benchy on !Delta (quantum Delta) #speedboatrace

YouTube
Show threadHydroponicTrashNov 16, 2022
@dalias @havoc Holy shit this is amazing. At first I was like "did I have my video playback speed up?" then he shows the watch and my jaw dropped. Holllyyy shit. That is fast.
Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@hydroponictrash @havoc That's the slow one. His fastest is 5:15. Open up his channel to see.
Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@hydroponictrash @havoc With this design and a syringe of molten recycled plastic as the extruder, you could go much faster still.
Show threadTrash RobotNov 16, 2022
@dalias @hydroponictrash @havoc I'm interested in one step before that. Using heat and machines to get from one fully formed plastic product to another via welds and bends without shredding. I do this all by hand with HDPE +tweezers + candle or heat gun now but there's tons of possibilities here. not additive manufacturing and also not just "reuse" but transformative manufacturing. eg.Plastic bottle -> new blow mold shape.
Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@lafelabs @hydroponictrash @havoc Have you experimented with vacuum source and heat to return bottles to "blanks" for blowing?
Show threadHavocNov 16, 2022
@lafelabs @dalias @hydroponictrash you could in theory get the same effect with a plastic solvent like acetone I think, rather than heat. Not saying it'd be better, just another avenue to explore
Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@havoc @lafelabs @hydroponictrash PET is immune to acetone and most solvents you would be comfortable being around. That's one of the many great things about it. The bottles you buy acetone nail polish remover in are themselves PET.
Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@havoc @lafelabs @hydroponictrash Actually, take that back - the one I have here is HDPE. But I don't see a reason PET wouldn't work too. Probably just more expensive.
Show threadHydroponicTrashNov 16, 2022
@lafelabs @dalias @havoc Yeah that would be sick. I remember seeing that plastic loses it's bonds the more its broken up, so that might help with a ton of it. Or print the molds to make direct forming easier, then you don't need to print, just dump it in and let it form. 🤔 📒
Show threadHydroponicTrashNov 16, 2022
@lafelabs @dalias @havoc Oh shit, adding onto that you can plastic form stuff that normally isn't really recyclable. Like plastic shopping bags tend to go to landfills because there isn't an easy way to reuse them, but they do melt and bond (some of them) and becasue you don't have to extrude it, no worries on the texture an all that, just form it into sheets then use forms to make them into something else.
Show threadHavocNov 16, 2022
@hydroponictrash @lafelabs @dalias I would think you could do this with synthetic rubber as well! Imagine finally being able to recycle tires
Show threadCassandrichNov 16, 2022
@havoc @hydroponictrash @lafelabs Is synthetic rubber a thermoplastic?
Show threadTrash RobotNov 16, 2022
@havoc @hydroponictrash @dalias there is a design out there for flip flops(sandals) from tires that I have not seen but have heard about. Tires --> shoes needs to be normalized and scaled up. I think the Viet Cong had a design they used to use(that's where I heard about it, from someone remembering the Vietnam war from that side).
Show threadHydroponicTrashNov 16, 2022
@lafelabs @havoc @dalias Ah yeah, they called them "Ho Chi Minh Sandals" pretty cool.
Show threadHavocNov 16, 2022
@hydroponictrash In a more speculative line of thought, imagine if we could apply 3D printing tech into other materials like MDF. In theory, you could fabricate a complete piece of furniture out of plastic fasteners and MDF, at most needing some screws from an outside source. That'd be a HUGE leap in sustainable modular production.
Show threadHydroponicTrashNov 16, 2022

@havoc True, true, lots of other materials to mess around with. Seen some interesting alternatives to MDF to cut down on the need for the lumber scraps used to make it by using mycelium as a substrate instead of wood. Either way, that would be really interesting to have a liquid MDF to print with.

It could for sure be done, I was talking to a friend who showed me this old expired patent for like the first 3D house/dome printer from the 1930's, same idea could be used with different materials than concrete, or a similar design by modifying the end to work like a large format 3D printer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl9rhG5BPrM

To do what your talking about, larger scale stuff using different materials.

The Real First 3D Printed Building (1930's)

YouTube