Jay RaynerOver on some other bear pit, there's been a lot of talk today about tipping in restaurants and how confusing it is. I'd like to see it end altogether.Menu prices would rise but I'd know that what I see is what I'm paying and that the people serving me are being paid a decent wage and aren't dependent on tips. it requires a lot of cultural and admin changes, but it works in Japan, France and Australia so there's no reason it couldn't work here. What do you think?
Thomos@JayRayner agreed, in the interest of transparency, decent wages in hospitality and a more relaxed end to the meal (maths not my strongpoint)
Jeremy Pemberton@JayRayner I agree, though there are some restaurants that would need to invest in customer service 101 training for their staff!
MargM
Peter Savage@JayRayner agree with you. Present situation is a nightmare.
Daniel J@JayRayner Japan was a delight for this, likewise France. See no reason why it can't work here - there are many places that add the service charge in, but there also seems to be a feeling that it's still being used to subsidise low wages (we're creeping up from 10% to 12.5% and 15%). I'd happily pay more for the food to know the staff were well paid and not have to worry about percentages at the end of the meal.
Abhijit@JayRayner agreed. Just charge what you need to make it work and stop faffing around with service charge and gratuity etc
Elise Roders@JayRayner I loved how it worked in Japan. Here in Holland, even though it's not compulsory, I do feel social pressure.
candystripe@JayRayner I’d love it too. Loathe tipping as it’s an excuse for staff to be underpaid. Can’t ever see it working across the pond however…
Ian ParcelForce@JayRayner one of the most unpleasant things that the restaurant industry ever did was to start skimming staff tips, because Diners now believe that tips added to the bill don’t go to the staff that served them. Adding an optional tip to the bill was supposed to be mutually efficient for everyone, but now it’s a hot mess of guilt and resentment.
Jim MacArthur@JayRayner I agree with your principles but it's going to be a difficult thing to change. Often this turns into an argument between customers and service staff, while unscrupulous owners ignore it and keep the benefits.
greenwayfoods@JayRayner I hate the presumption of an establishment that (as in the receipt you posted) just adds a service charge. Having worked in and around hospitality since college in the 1970s for 40 years, I've been aware of campaigns, to stop businesses skimming the SC - didn't the Caterer run one?
Whenever we eat out, with friends or as a couple, we always leave a cash table tip. We're rewarding the service, after all. If staff were paid properly, the argument wouldn't be needed.
Whenever we eat out, with friends or as a couple, we always leave a cash table tip. We're rewarding the service, after all. If staff were paid properly, the argument wouldn't be needed.
derekbell@JayRayner perfect sense. Tipping is demeaning for both sides. Decent wages are the answer.
Alasdair Satchel@JayRayner Would happily have it added to the bill. Also with the decrease in use of cash I wonder if tips are going down? I’m never sure if I add a tip to a card transaction that it’s going to get to the staff. Hopefully it always does.
@JayRayner would be much better, current situation often awkward, especially if no cash and no option on the machine.
Dave Davis@JayRayner Certainly need to raise wages. If tips are given, fhey should be extra, not a subsidy to the employer to make up for poor wages.
Brónagh@JayRayner Agreed. Less cash spending means less cash tips. And how do we know that adding a tip via the card machine goes to them?
It is demeaning and does little to increase the size of a tip - we all just use a percentage regardless of how good it is.
It is demeaning and does little to increase the size of a tip - we all just use a percentage regardless of how good it is.
Scott VineThink that is sensible and long overdue. Also given how often the 'service charge' is already added to bills , the industry is already half way there
Obeide@JayRayner agreed, i want to know the staff get paid fairly without a tip.
Nodpisigma@JayRayner
I once had a lecture from an American waitress in New York while serving my breakfast on how bad Brits were at tipping. I proved her right and never went back. I would have tipped generously/properly without the lecture. I’m with you on this, though my student daughter would most likely have missed out on her £80 tip from a table of 4 at St Andrews during the Open in the summer.
I once had a lecture from an American waitress in New York while serving my breakfast on how bad Brits were at tipping. I proved her right and never went back. I would have tipped generously/properly without the lecture. I’m with you on this, though my student daughter would most likely have missed out on her £80 tip from a table of 4 at St Andrews during the Open in the summer.
Elizabeth Wrigley-Field@Nodpisigma @JayRayner Your New York server doesn’t make anything approaching a living wage without a tip. Just because she offended you by, apparently, not knowing her place, you forced her to work for you at a wage that is probably illegal in your own country. Not cool!
@wrigleyfield @JayRayner
That I knew. Not just offended me, embarrassed be by doing this loudly in front of other customers. If this had happened before my food arrived I would have got up and left.
That I knew. Not just offended me, embarrassed be by doing this loudly in front of other customers. If this had happened before my food arrived I would have got up and left.
@wrigleyfield @JayRayner@ Should also have said that the sorry saga would have been avoided in proper pricing scenario where servers were paid properly.
David Rusling@JayRayner same as Japan, much more human
@JayRayner I know an old chap who used to carry a teabag in a little brown envelope in his jacket pocket. When asked if he would like to give a tip he would hand over the envelope before leaving. PG tips !!!
🐌’s Pace@JayRayner
One of the many many things I love about Japan, (aside from the best, my amazing daughter in law), is the No Tip policy. Rather than promoting lax service, it seems to encourage better service. Plus, as you say, you know what you are paying for. It removes the judgemental aspect, and makes for a more relaxed experience.
One of the many many things I love about Japan, (aside from the best, my amazing daughter in law), is the No Tip policy. Rather than promoting lax service, it seems to encourage better service. Plus, as you say, you know what you are paying for. It removes the judgemental aspect, and makes for a more relaxed experience.
Amanda@JayRayner completely agree with you - the service charge trend is now everywhere and is basically a wage top up. Just put up the price if that’s what’s required but businesses won’t. We are not the USA where their basic is so low tips are a necessity…. and in Aus their basic hospitality minimum wage is a tad under $27Aus - over £15 per hour - 50% more than the UK…..
Peter Down@JayRayner I absolutely agree. I've always thought that tipping, as an expectation, allows employers to pay their staff less than they're worth. It doesn't mean that you can't reward outstanding service, simply that staff can be properly paid for the work they do without being reliant on the generosity of customers.
Sparkletutu@JayRayner
Absolutely agree. I hate tipping even though I worked in the industry for 30 years.
Absolutely agree. I hate tipping even though I worked in the industry for 30 years.
Cosmos 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🎄@JayRayner
As you say, it works in other countries. However, here in France, there's also been debate over the fact that in some (many?) restaurants the inclusive tip doesn't always find its way into the worker's pay and how to make the system more transparent.
As you say, it works in other countries. However, here in France, there's also been debate over the fact that in some (many?) restaurants the inclusive tip doesn't always find its way into the worker's pay and how to make the system more transparent.
mym@JayRayner absolutely. Otherwise we're subsidising a form of abusive employment and headed in the American direction.
OoVaVoO@JayRayner everyone seems to think that this is a good idea (which I happen to agree with) … but is that the difference between Mastodon and the Birdplace?
Kitt McGee@JayRayner
An automatically added service charge on your bill that you would need a level of belligerence that no British person could ever muster to request to be removed = No.
Enjoying the food and/or service, and voluntarily asking for an extra amount to be added to your bill to reward the staff for a job well done = Yes.
An automatically added service charge on your bill that you would need a level of belligerence that no British person could ever muster to request to be removed = No.
Enjoying the food and/or service, and voluntarily asking for an extra amount to be added to your bill to reward the staff for a job well done = Yes.
Star Leigh@JayRayner Agree, because tips have become meaningless - here in America, they’re just a required part of the price for so many things (unless you want to be a total asshole). I always tip 20% because it’s the socially expected thing, regardless of service level. Not just at restaurants, but for hair stylists, Uber rides, food delivery, movers, pretty much any service industry. If they were paid more instead of relying on tips it’d be better for everyone.
@JayRayner Meanwhile, this was apparently posted on the NextDoor app…I really hope it’s fake… 😆
Vincenzo@JayRayner in Italy where I grew up staff are paid a decent Tips are a thank you for good service, not survival. The only blocker to move to such a system is greed
Foxglove@JayRayner
I really dislike the service charge addition on a bill, though I always pay up! My anxiety is that those working should earn a fair and decent wage. Not trusting proprietors to pass in a tip, I would rather hand it over myself.
At times I have also wondered whether the tip under the plate, which my mum liked, was a way of avoiding the real social contact needed to say thank you. Leaving some cash is easier than looking someone in the eyes, smiling and saying thank you. Sad really.
I really dislike the service charge addition on a bill, though I always pay up! My anxiety is that those working should earn a fair and decent wage. Not trusting proprietors to pass in a tip, I would rather hand it over myself.
At times I have also wondered whether the tip under the plate, which my mum liked, was a way of avoiding the real social contact needed to say thank you. Leaving some cash is easier than looking someone in the eyes, smiling and saying thank you. Sad really.
Gary James #cyclingtweeps@JayRayner something that started as an optional ‘nice thing to do’ on a personal level has morphed into an exploitative scam. Pay people properly.
King James@JayRayner I find it quite annoying that the norm now in the U.K. is for the restaurant just to add a 10% service charge. I get that it’s optional, but the cultural feeling around this interaction is bleak and soulless. If I’m going to tip I’d like it to be a conscious decision as seen in the US and I’m not sure that this approach necessarily benefits the staff, does it?
Personally I’d prefer to have either no tips or a full-on system as seen in the US. U.K. is worst of both worlds.
Personally I’d prefer to have either no tips or a full-on system as seen in the US. U.K. is worst of both worlds.
Andy Davidson (@EMF 2474 / BGP4) @JayRayner I find the tipping culture in the US really hard to deal with and always feel like I’m getting something wrong. I much prefer your model: pay the team properly, end the hand out dependency.
Kevin كيفين Pluck@JayRayner some crowd like Michelin should give some sort of emblem to restaurants that pay their staff living wages.
Maybe a grading system, perhaps using stars 🤔
From Beer to Fraternity
MusiqueNow 
✡️ 🇵🇸 
Pay people well, so that tipping isn't necessary.
Workers, particularly women (cis & trans) are victimised by tipping becz they have have to put up with &@$&kers
JonnyJack888@JayRayner
Agreed. The natural sceptic in me dislikes being handed a card reader at the end of a meal, and being prompted "Would you like to add a tip", and thinking the waiters or waitresses won't see a penny of it.
Transparency and fair pay for a fair service...
Agreed. The natural sceptic in me dislikes being handed a card reader at the end of a meal, and being prompted "Would you like to add a tip", and thinking the waiters or waitresses won't see a penny of it.
Transparency and fair pay for a fair service...
AAA365@JayRayner In an ideal world this would be a good idea however if the service is bad for example the chicken undercooked staff inattentive etc. the service charge would still be included. When the service is good it is nice to leave a cash tip for staff to pocket especially during a cost of living crisis, it makes them feel appreciated for making that extra effort and they’ll remember you when you return.
Ms AB ☕@JayRayner In principle it's the right thing to do. However, where I live prices have skyrocketed so to eat out costs easily £30+ per person. W/people struggling to heat their homes this isn't feasible. Plus restos now taking deposits /bookings; folk not showing up, I suppose. Hard times all round.
@JayRayner I don't know many people who would leave a restaurant in France without putting a tip on the table.
Chris Thompson (he/him)@JayRayner when I was working at sea and on good money I always tipped. Now I earn a little over minimum wage on less per hour than a lot of service staff so I can’t really afford to leave a tip.
Richard Brunton@JayRayner I like this idea a lot. Sometimes, when I feel the service charge is too high or even too low, I'll ask for it to be removed and add in my own. I appreciate the new payment devices that allow you to add your own, discretely, at time of payment, but I'd like to know that all staff are getting a fair wage before adding a tip.
@JayRayner absolutely agree. A pleasant surprise to find this is the norm in Australia so I don’t see why it can’t work here too
@JayRayner Yes, completely agree. I'd much prefer just to see a price for my meal and to know the staff were being paid a decent wage.
Vinay Aravind@JayRayner in India you end up seeing the worst of both worlds. Grossly underpaid workers and customers (especially elites) who hate to tip. The number of people who hesitate to even put down a 10% tip is staggering.
SONIA@vinayaravind @JayRayner
💯 I've argued with friends in India who are against tipping. I oppose it too, in principle - people should be paid a fair wage to begin with, not be reliant on tips. But when they're not, tipping is a moral duty, especially in a country like India where the inequality is so extreme.
💯 I've argued with friends in India who are against tipping. I oppose it too, in principle - people should be paid a fair wage to begin with, not be reliant on tips. But when they're not, tipping is a moral duty, especially in a country like India where the inequality is so extreme.
Fred 🐧 🍄 🚢 ♾️@JayRayner tips in Finland are generally (though not always) not a thing. When I first moved to Finland I tried tipping a few times and the waiter looked at me in a puzzled way and told me I forgot to take my money. But that comes with the territory of a union agreement for restaurant staff pay.
Phil Harrison@JayRayner I absolutely agree with you on this.
Wouldn't it be nice to just buy food in a restaurant for the advertised price in the same way that we buy stuff from any other type of business. I don't want service staff being nice to me in the hope that I'll throw them a few quid, I want them to be in a secure job with a decent regular income.
simon gray@JayRayner — It’s the ‘and in the age of plastic who has cash on them anyway?’ part which does it for me; even before The Event I’d reached a stage where I never had cash on me and thus only shopped In establishments which took plastic
@JayRayner I agree entirely for several reasons:
- We rarely carry cash
- Staff should not have to rely on tips for their wage
- It’s hard to work expense tips
- Businesses should pay a decent wage
- We rarely carry cash
- Staff should not have to rely on tips for their wage
- It’s hard to work expense tips
- Businesses should pay a decent wage
mallocTipping was abolished long ago in Switzerland. Staff get treated as professionals who get paid properly and who get a pension plan etc. from their employer. This is as it should be.
Amanda Clark@JayRayner the staff Amy not get the money if you do this. Greedy owners won’t pay them anymore.
Gillian Craib@JayRayner
You look at the bill with the service charge and have no idea if the staff receive it. Some restaurants don’t have a service charge: it’s all so confusing 🤷♀️
You look at the bill with the service charge and have no idea if the staff receive it. Some restaurants don’t have a service charge: it’s all so confusing 🤷♀️