SmittyHalibutNov 7, 2022

I see a lot of people talking about how Mastodon "Feels like the Internet I remember from 20 years ago."

That's no accident. That's Federation. That's UseNet, IRC, Email, Message Boards, etc. What do they all have in common?

Federation: Users congregating around watering holes of common interest, but still being a part of a larger whole.

THIS IS HOW THE INTERNET WAS DESIGNED TO BE. And I am HERE for it.

Show threadSarbNov 7, 2022
@smitty hell yeh
Show threadSmittyHalibut
@sarb Right?! 🙂
Nov 7, 2022 at 5:44amWeb
Show threadSarbNov 7, 2022
@smitty I remember back when we pushed hard against walled gardens. And then the rise of Facebook and Gmail meant that both email and the web became synonymous with just these two things. And mobile service providers even offered free data to access them in exchange for a cut of the revenue. Still do. I am v new here, but I used to belong to a microblogging service called Phlog, back in 2003. I was user #3. What a ride! https://twitter.com/alanb/status/1488754580100116481?s=20&t=OXA_nJPHw7lze3-EFOv8NA
Alan Bradburne on Twitter

“Heh, all still intact. Nice. Gonna prop-up my 19-year-old pre-twitter microblog for a giggle. #phlog”

Twitter
Show threadSmittyHalibutNov 7, 2022
@sarb At least Email is still a Federated system. If you choose to use gmail.com, it doesn't stop me from using my own domain and still being able to interoperate with you. That's really where the problem is: breaking that interoperability between domains of control. Luckily, email became well enough established before large instances like Gmail came around, otherwise it probably would be a walled garden too.
Show threadSarbNov 7, 2022
@smitty Too true, email you can disaggregate to a large extent. But so many people don't because it's easy. And hence the training wheels required for Mastodon. many people have never experienced an ecosystem like this before. I did for decades, but haven't in a long time, and I'm REALLY rusty. Heck knows what others feel like...
Show threadʞuᴉԀ ✅Nov 7, 2022

@smitty @sarb I remember that was literally what services such as Microsoft Network (MSN) were all about in their first iterations and what Exchange server was originally for.

Their idea was you would access everything through their network and stay on their network for the most part with proprietary systems for messages and "web" and a "gateway" that they could charge you for to access other networks such as AOL, Compuserve, or "internet messages".

Show threadSarb JohalNov 7, 2022
@PeaEyeEnnKay @smitty I know! Remember when the person who knew how to interface with the Exchange server was the person who you had to suck up to the most in order to get anything down outside the internal network?
Show threadʞuᴉԀ ✅Nov 8, 2022

@sarb @smitty I was 'that guy' but we were running Netware and Solaris in the backend on a dual bonded ISDN with Socks proxy and as I was the only person who knew how it all worked I was free to give people unfettered access to the internet and show them how to hide from company snooping as much as possible.

Exchange was something I was 'looking at', mostly with disdain.

Show threadSarb JohalNov 8, 2022
@PeaEyeEnnKay @smitty🔝 Force for good!
Show threadSteveNov 8, 2022

@smitty @sarb greetings. Regarding to email is a federated system, I read recently this sad article about the difficulties you might face with it:

https://cfenollosa.com/blog/after-self-hosting-my-email-for-twenty-three-years-i-have-thrown-in-the-towel-the-oligopoly-has-won.html

He faced huge problems with Mail distribution after some spam mail events and the upcoming ban for it by so called "big players".

I cannot compare. Did you notice something similar?

After self-hosting my email for twenty-three years I have thrown in the towel. The oligopoly has won.

Many companies have been trying to disrupt email by making it proprietary. So far, they have failed. Email keeps being an open protocol. Hurray? No hurray. Email is not distributed anymore. You just cannot create another first-class node of this ne

Show threadNealeNov 18, 2022

@SteveTux @smitty @sarb I had to take my server offline years ago for the exact reasons outlined in this article.

I used to work on anti-spam solutions and SMTP filters. I don't blame anybody but the spammers for this state of affairs. It's honestly impressive that email is still in use at all.

Show threadSmittyHalibutNov 18, 2022

@neale @SteveTux @sarb Self hosting email is a disaster; I should know, I've been doing it since 1995. You have to setup your site very carefully. I have a closed user base that I mostly trust, so credentials don't leak often.

But, yes, I've had to deal with Gmail, hotmail, etc, rejecting our emails because somehow some spam got through. I find and fix the problem, and they auto-remediate. It's not trivial.

But ActivityPub is different: source authentication is built-in to the protocol.

Show threadIrinaNov 18, 2022
@SteveTux @smitty @sarb Yes, same here. We opted for external hosting rather than doing everything on our own machine but it didn't help any, we're still flagged as spam every so often.
Show threadSarbNov 7, 2022
@smitty I also lost about 6 months of my life to #undernet on IRC on the @cern server in 1992
Show threadSmittyHalibutNov 7, 2022
@sarb I actually mostly avoided IRC because I had another social forum that I ran: a Citadel/UX BBS with an active userbase dating from the 80s. But I know people who went DEEP into IRC, for YEARS. I remember talk of #heathers getting out of hand. 🙂
Show threadSarbNov 7, 2022
@smitty Crikey - yeah, I missed the whole BBS thing mostly. But I remember AOL arriving in the UK in the midst of trying to build a walled garden around all that (if I remember correctly). They got burned.
Show threadSmittyHalibutNov 7, 2022
@sarb I owe my entire career (and, lets be honest, LIFE) to BBSes. I got started when I was 10, was running my own by 12, and haven't stopped running it, even to today. It's what got me started in system administration and networking. I literally have no idea what I'd have done to make money if it weren't for BBSing when I was a kid.
Show threadSarbNov 7, 2022
@smitty FANTASTIC - what a skill to have to keep going though all this - and so many changes you'll have seen too. Like, from the BEGINNING OF INTERNET TIME
Show threadSarbNov 7, 2022
@smitty OMG this convo reminds me that when I arrived in NZ in 2005, the shared flat I was in was still using dial-up internet. 2005! We had to take turns with it and we had time limits. And mobile data was so expensive and crappy coverage, I had to go to internet cafes to stay in touch with folks outside of NZ. Which was everyone. I didn't know anyone here then. WOW
Show threadLothos Nov 7, 2022
@sarb @smitty I got on irc around 91 and never left