David RevoyDo not buy NFT made with my art.
Do not make NFT with my Creative-Commons artworks.
If you respect my art, remember and apply this.
Here is my article about what just happened: https://www.davidrevoy.com/article864/dream-cats-nfts-don-t-buy-them
pinkprius [en]@davidrevoy what the actual fuck. I mean why am I even surprised.
mmu_man@pinkprius @davidrevoy let's make an NFT to raise money to sue… oh, nevermind 😅
Jé@davidrevoy @mmu_man @pinkprius
Indeed I was thinking about creating an NFT on your blog post and selling it on OpenSea.
*taking my hand off the keyboard*
silly@davidrevoy absolutely disgusting
Sylvhem@davidrevoy Wow. What a shitty idea. I’m astonished they could sell *that*.
I’m sorry this happened to you :s.
I’m sorry this happened to you :s.
binchicken@davidrevoy that is awful, i am so sorry your art and your effort is being used in this way.
Scimmia di Mare@davidrevoy "se ne deve comprare tutte medicine" => "he must spend all rised money buying medicines"
Nartance@davidrevoy * insert very grumpy smiley *
Lord Marc Grondin@davidrevoy And this is just what i was saying about NFT's the other day. Nothing is stopping anyone from making(minting?) an NFT out of something they did not create.
Mark Shane Hayden@davidrevoy This is a reason I prefer CC-BY-SA over just CC-BY. To me it is the right balance of freedom vs. restrictions because it provides some stipulations to ensure derivative works retain freedom of distribution. (although I know some people prefer maximum permissiveness and others prefer more restrictions like non-commercial or explicit restrictions on use...chacun à son goût!)
Perhaps the SA provision would've provided some protection from the "artificial uniqueness" of the attached NFT? Like if the NFT owner got upset that someone just used "their" dreamcat then tough luck because they are obligated to let everyone use it freely so long as you and ROPLAK were credited? Then the NFT would have no market value?
I don't know...NFTs in most cases make no sense to me at all since the digital asset can be duplicated regardless of licensing or the attachment of an NFT.
@msh This application would be totally compatible and legal with CC-By-Sa. As long as the license is written along, and result available under the same license...
Only NC could stop NFT. ND could have prevented the DeepDream filter.
It's a case of Moral right, not legal right. Youll find it written on "Notices" at the end of every CC license (CC-By included) : https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.
varx/tech@davidrevoy @msh If the NFT doesn't contain a copy of the work (which is my understanding at the moment) then even full copyright would not be a protection against it.
ArneBab@davidrevoy @msh I avoid NC, because it tricks the honest re-users into a dead-end: https://www.draketo.de/light/english/politics/free-culture-danger-noncommercial
Example: If you had used NC for Lecture, I would have been forced to use NC for my roleplaying book to enable re-using it (assuming no other by-sa works were in there) and you wouldn’t be able to make money from stuff made by re-using my latex templates.
The dynamics of free culture and the danger of noncommercial clauses | Zwillingssterns Weltenwald | 1w6
Fr, 12/28/2012 - 20:10 — Draketo NC covered works trick people into investing in a dead end Free licensing lowers the barrier of entry to creating cultural works, which unlocks a dynamic where people can realize their ideas much easier - and where culture can actually live, creating memes, adjusting them to new situations and using new approaches with old topics. Bu... 1w6
Deadly Headshot@msh @davidrevoy I think that while SA is not the right licence for everything and everyone, that in this case it would have been the ideal licence for what it sounds like you (David, not Mark) wanted for the artwork. I guess when you pick a licence it's a matter of thinking of the worst possible outcomes. Sad, really...
@DHeadshot @msh Unfortunately, SA is compatible with this case of DreamCats. Just mention the license and offer a way to get the file (right click, save as on OpenSea) and bim; compatible CC-By-Sa. The real NFT blocker is the NC/Non Commercial...
Dick Smiths Fair Go Supporters@davidrevoy
The #moneyLaundering is strong with this one.
At a glance, looks like someone using a proclivity for art, to pay them for something illegal they are doing eg. #blackmail.
Real artists know you can't make money legitimately like this.
We actually think govt need to crack down on #NFT as #unexplainedIncome, if they convert to #fiat, but from what we can tell NFT are encouraged by govt because they distract from #Bitcoin and #Monero etc.
NFT are to 2020 what #altCoins were to 2016.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛@dsfgs @davidrevoy > ROPLAK, is the only one who benefits and already sold 4.2 ETH, so, around 10 000 Euros in two days.
Yeah, either:
- The buyer misunderstood something fundamental about NFTs
- I misunderstood something fundamental about NFTs
or
- This is money laundering
Yeah, either:
- The buyer misunderstood something fundamental about NFTs
- I misunderstood something fundamental about NFTs
or
- This is money laundering
narF 🎲@davidrevoy Je partagé ta frustration. C'est vraiment poche!
Je pense que tu fais bien de ne pas aller te battre contre ça. Tu n'y gagnerais rien d'autre que d'avantage de frustrations. 😞
marius851000@davidrevoy
Je me demande si ce genre de NFT s'accompagne de garantie légale (tel un transfert de copyright). D'a ce que je sais, le contenu d'un NFT doit être accessible au monde d'une manière ou d'une autre. J'ai souvent tendance à percevoir les NFT comme quelque chose ayant de la valeur pour ce qui reconaisse leur uniqueté sur le réseau.
Je me demande si ce genre de NFT s'accompagne de garantie légale (tel un transfert de copyright). D'a ce que je sais, le contenu d'un NFT doit être accessible au monde d'une manière ou d'une autre. J'ai souvent tendance à percevoir les NFT comme quelque chose ayant de la valeur pour ce qui reconaisse leur uniqueté sur le réseau.
@marius851000 Tout depend de ce que l'auteurice du NFT mentionne. (on peu contractualiser tout en fait, services, droits, objet, etc... )
Dans ce cas-ci; rien d'explicite, eg: https://opensea.io/assets/0x495f947276749ce646f68ac8c248420045cb7b5e/82723732589168510301774833741522954464476851151515153640422662930159840002049 ; juste avoir la propriété du code barre qui représente ce dessin.
S T E L L A R 
@davidrevoy so i can steal seomone's art and sell it as nft now?
kandid@davidrevoy I remember a discussion about the GPL many years ago. The GPL does not protect a buyer from paying more for GPL licensed software than the price of a floppy disk. The hope at that time was: The buyer realizes that he became a victim of a fraud. He and everyone else could have gotten the same software and much more for practically free.
1/2
@davidrevoy With NFT, the buyer only receives a sequence of digits. The original digital work can be reproduced any number of times; identically or in a modified form. If the "market" is flooded with generative graphics the buyer becomes the loser. The customer as victim.
My argumentation is based on the Age of Enlightenment. But Kant's "der Ausgang des Menschen aus seiner selbstverschuldeten Unmündigkeit" seems to be without effect today.
2/2
Elfi, local Disaster Fae 🧚@davidrevoy Honestly this is why I default to BY-NC-SA with a note to contact me for alternative licensing. Not that fraudsters care about the rules anyway, but it gives me more tools to fight back with
@elfi Yes. When I had the first case, the art was under CC-By-NC-Nd and OpenSea immediately removed the copy. The NC rule works in this case.
Bazza 🔶
piegames@davidrevoy I just found your cat generator through this and it's totally awesome! Is there a way to manually select all the parts I want to have like with other common avatar creators?
猫猫 
@davidrevoy its absolutely a dick move to sell CC artworks as NFT. i agree fully with you there. i don't wanna see my art in NFTs either
Urusan@davidrevoy There goes the "NFTs are for the artists" justification out the window.
Turns out it was all about the money all along!
xj9@urusan @davidrevoy
> you are allowed to use this for commercial reasons
> but i don't want to you use this for commercial reasons in some cases
i see creative commons license doesn't actually mean you have permission to do something even though the license does grant it. i understand the objections to minting NFTs, but it might have helped to telegraph that actually commercial uses are not allowed. seems like more of a communication issue. author has objection to NFT that isn't communicated until after they exist. NFT dealer *should* respect the authors wishes though, even if it was unclear to start with.
> you are allowed to use this for commercial reasons
> but i don't want to you use this for commercial reasons in some cases
i see creative commons license doesn't actually mean you have permission to do something even though the license does grant it. i understand the objections to minting NFTs, but it might have helped to telegraph that actually commercial uses are not allowed. seems like more of a communication issue. author has objection to NFT that isn't communicated until after they exist. NFT dealer *should* respect the authors wishes though, even if it was unclear to start with.
@xj9 @davidrevoy What the NFT dealer did was legal.
However, simply jumping on this commercial opportunity shows a profound disinterest in the artist.
Oh hey, there's some untapped money, let's jump on that!
It's all about the money.
Benjamin Jones@urusan @xj9 @davidrevoy honestly how can we fault someone for trying to make money here. The whole point of CC is that people can use the art for whatever purpose (within certain constraints that are clearly stated). If the original artist truly has an issue with how their art will be used, why not be clear about it before? (Either with their choice of license or otherwise)
@benjaminpaikjones @urusan @xj9 Hey Benjamin, I get your point. And if it was a baker, selling 10K cookies with CC-By catavatar and making 10K$, I would be fine and happy with it.
The problem here is the NFT.
NFT creators knows all NFTs divides community for ethical reasons. A 10K item deployment is not a little thing.
Before this attempt, I already had three other attempt from various coders; they emailed me the project (because it was large scale, has NFT) and I could gently reject.
@davidrevoy @urusan @xj9 I guess I just don't understand why you slap a permissive license on something you care deeply about.
I write a bit of open source code, and whenever I put something under an open source license, then it may be used even for purposes I find morally reprehensible.
Expecting downstream creators* to respect your (**unstated**) wishes after they have put some work into their project seems crude...
*not saying ROPLAK is a great artist, but they did put some non-zero work into making something that is apparently worth 10k to somebody 😂
@benjaminpaikjones @davidrevoy @urusan @xj9 It's not dumb, it's just a matter of using a kind word instead of using a kind word and a gun.
@xj9 @davidrevoy @urusan All that is said here is you're legally allowed to X but please don't be rude, don't do X, that's it.
Dan Jones (@@davidrevoy I reported the listing on OpenSea. It probably won’t have an effect, since it’s not illegal, but who knows.
@davidrevoy > I know my name is on every items, I know my name is on the title of the catalog, etc...
The CC-by gives you the right to remove your attribution. If the OpenSea people complied with your NC request before, maybe they will comply with this too.
The CC-by gives you the right to remove your attribution. If the OpenSea people complied with your NC request before, maybe they will comply with this too.
Charles-Édouard Coste@davidrevoy ça fait plaisir de voir quelqu'un qui connaît un minimum les droits d'auteur et fait la différence entre le droit patrimonial et le droit moral.
TuxicomanLes nft, a quoi ca sert à part blanchir de l'argent? Vu qu'on peut créer autant de nft qu'on veut sur le même objet ?
https://www.eisneramper.com/non-fungible-tokens-money-laundering-flvs-blog-0821/
meeper@davidrevoy this is absolutely disgusting
@davidrevoy The cc by explicitly forbids indicating endorsement with a derived work: "You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use."
@ArneBab Hey Arne. 🙂 Yes, but the 'endorsment' rule works a bit differently: I met it already on fraudulent Kickstarter where the project tried to tell to the audience "I was on board with the team" or "I was bleesing their project" just by reusing my art. That's a attempt to steal the 'trust' linked to my behavior and relation with audience.
This NFTs have no real sign or explicit sign of endorsment.
But, in theory, I still have my Moral right, (on Notices of every CC and 2b(1) of the code.
This NFTs have no real sign or explicit sign of endorsment.
But, in theory, I still have my Moral right, (on Notices of every CC and 2b(1) of the code.
@davidrevoy ah — I thought they had actually claimed endorsement.
Do you know whether the publisher actually got the cats from you or rather from some other page (i.e. directly from the deep dream page)?
@ArneBab No idea about the exact source. I can imagine with the care of a 10K item deployment, one does study the origin.
@davidrevoy one hint: When you link to such volatile stuff like a tweet of someone who’s mainly after money, best get it on archive.org at the same time, so your reference keeps working. Archive.org has an option when asking for a link to tell them to fetch it.
@ArneBab Right. That's a precious tip. Archive link are solids and also I like the fact (eg.in case of a Tweet) that poeple can't immediately interact with the Tweet to bash/write hainous/make justices their way. A static page frozen in time. I'll remember about it. That will also save me time on editing the article again and again.
@ArneBab A fun fact: I already had **3** request of NFT/Crypto enthusiast to do that with the Catavatar. They all emailed me before starting, mostly to discuss about sharing a percent of profit. I refused in the three cases for the same ethical reasons and they agreed on finding another generator, or hire an artist to make their own generator of art. In the case of the "Dream Cats" I had no email/PM/or DM. I understand in a way, CC-By is meant to be used this way... but for a 10K deployment...?!
@davidrevoy I’m trying to spread the word: https://twitter.com/ArneBab/status/1440953132595490816
@ArneBab Thanks!
Calligrafae@davidrevoy Examples of NFTs being gross: millions and millions
Examples of NFTs being good: ...
Examples of NFTs being good: ...
Alexandre Hannud AbdoNi! I think an important point is that the NFT market doesn't need David's catavatar generator. If it wasn't out there under a free license, that market would just go for something else, whether it would pay for it or not. What the choice of picking on his stuff does provide - because of David's effort in pushing the issue (thank you!) - is an opportunity to expose and educate people on just how wrong NFTs are.
Alexandre Oliva (moved to @CC-BY-NNFT here we come