Shailesh MendonNov 11, 2019
Audrey Truschke

Let's do another round on #Ramayana questions. One never exhausts this subject, truly.

Last time, I commented on modern retellings, Rama's birthplace, English translations of Valmiki's text, Shambuka's story, and the number of versions of the story.

If you have follow-up questions or others, have at it. I'll do my best to answer the first five questions. #MastodonThread #Thread #history

Nov 11, 2019 at 3:02pmWeb
Show threadAudrey TruschkeNov 11, 2019

That's 5 questions. Thanks to all for engaging.

See below for comments on the composition order of Mahabharata and Ramayana, why Ravana didn't rape Sita, how to talk about the Ramayana with believers, the relationship between the Ramayana and the Iliad, and Rama as God. #Ramayana #MastodonThread

Show threadനാടകമേ ഉലകംNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke is Ram an idol man. ?!
Show threadManoj GramathNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke
Ah! I keep missing the window of opportunity.
Show threadMetheSamNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke I know I'm not on time and maybe breaking rules by posting another question but I really want to ask you this question. Did the events of Ramayana really occur in history. Are they even based on real characters? Did Ram, Sita, Ravan really exist and were they the same people as mentioned in the Ramayana..
Show threadpeelerajaNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke some say it was written before mahabharata and thus future events retrofitted. anything about this?
Show threadAudrey TruschkeNov 11, 2019

@peeleraja The way to remember this -- The internal chronology and the composition order of the two Sanskrit epics are opposite one another.

So, according to the internal chronology, Ramayana events happened first, then Mahabharata events. In terms of the written Sanskrit stories, most scholars think the Mahabharata was written first (There are some older linguistic forms in the text that indicate this, plus the society it reflects. Also the MBh contains an abbreviated RM story).

Show threadpeelerajaNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke any references? even jstor paywalled ones ok
Show threadAudrey TruschkeNov 11, 2019
@peeleraja Brockington's Sanskrit epics is probably the clearest source that discusses the issue. Doniger's The Hindus has a timeline that shows this also.
Show threadpeelerajaNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke thanks
Show threadVijayNov 14, 2019

@audreytruschke @peeleraja
Ramayanam - struggle for girl
Mahabaratham - struggle for land

Struggle for girls is primitive, and predates struggle for land

Show threadNSure ✔Nov 17, 2019

@vjy @audreytruschke @peeleraja

Mmm, that makes sense, but the human mind - even today or especially today, whichever you prefer - doesn't stick with sense!!

As for the real question, I'm very willing to go by the specialist's views!!

Show threadSai KrishnaNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke how does one approach talking to a person who thinks the Ramayana actually happened?
Show threadSai KrishnaNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke how does a layperson educate another layperson on the difference between myth and reality?
Show threadAudrey TruschkeNov 11, 2019
@Saivadla I suppose that depends on why you're talking about it with them. There's plenty to discuss in terms of Ramayana stories, virtues and vices of characters, problematic situations, internal causality, etc. that doesn't touch upon the question of ultimate truth. Why not focus on those things?
Show threadSai VishalNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke The parallels of a Hindu nation and Ravana rule.
Show threadSarcasm™Nov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke i have some doubt about Ravan and not Ram. As people claim he abducted Sita, then why he didn't gona for Rakshashi Vivah, afterall it is one type of marriage. And he already committed half part of it by abduction?
Show threadAudrey TruschkeNov 11, 2019
@sarcasticrofl_ The Ravana-Sita situation disturbed many premodern and early modern thinkers also, who kept coming up with new ways to explain how it was that Ravana did not rape Sita. There were later added stories about Ravana's past explaining why this was a non-possibility. There was the change in the story where Ravana never touched Sita. Maya Sita was sort of the culmination of this way of thinking, where the real Sita was never abducted by Ravana.
Show threadSarcasm™Nov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke yeah claims like Ravan never touched Sita seems astonishing, how can one abduct without touching.
Show threadSanjay SipahimalaniNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke Are there resonances with epics from other parts of the world? (As with, for example, the Mahabharata and the Iliad.)
Show threadAudrey TruschkeNov 11, 2019
@SanSip Oh sure. This comes up in scholarly discussions in several ways. One is in the category of "epic," which is a Western category rather than an internal Sanskrit one. What makes them all epics? Another way it comes up is that we use similar philological strategies to parse epics from different parts of the world, including explaining the relationship with (and lingering indications of) oral storytelling, use of epithets, etc.
Show threadManoj GramathNov 11, 2019

@audreytruschke @SanSip
There is also a version of story that says Ravan was Sita's father

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sita#Jain_version

Sita - Wikipedia

Show threadOROPNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke was ram a god in Valmiki’s Ramayan?
Show threadAudrey TruschkeNov 11, 2019

@Mkd Complicated. One scholarly view (a bit older) is that Rama's divinity was added later. I think most scholars accept a more recent revised argument that indicates Rama's divinity was there in Valmiki's text but more uneven and not nearly as strongly as in later retellings.

For instance, Rama forgets he's Vishnu a lot in Valmiki's text. He is subjected to harsh criticism from Sita, Vali, etc.

This is very different than Tulsidas's moralizing and later vision of Rama as God always.

Show threadBeYessNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke #TootRamayana Can Ramayana , not the story but the essence, be explained in 500 characters?
Show threadUravannaNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke
Kishkinda ( present day Koppal district of Karnataka), a kingdom which Sugreeva and his clan ruled is in South India. Can we conclude that the authors of Ramayana considered South Indians (native dravidian castes & tribes) as technically the "Vaanar Sena aka Monkey Clan"?
Show threadRavi NistalaNov 11, 2019
What are the main allegations against Ravana? Why is he considered a villain? As such it appears that he was just another King who ruled his kingdom, and let others rule their kingdoms.
Show threadDravidaryanNov 11, 2019
@audreytruschke are south Indians portrayed as monkeys in Ramayana? Assuming the events did happen, it is plausible the dark complexioned southerners were mischievously portrayed as monkeys in later retellings of the Ramayana while the original could have had them as human?
Show threadHarshaNov 13, 2019
@audreytruschke did Rama cry when he went about looking sita after the abduction by ravana