Mama Wati[Imani]🏴⚧Theory: Open source software is terrible to use because design can't be parceled apart like development can. Design has to be holistic and design by committee results in awful stuff. #foss
follow @@imani coincidentally, i think this is also why megacorp software trends towards terrible design
benni@imani i think there is no correlation between the used software license and the design "by comitee" or by an individual. i am also pretty sure there is not a single major prorietary software out there which is designed by only one person.
qwazix@benni @imani in major proprietary software however the developers are paid to follow the direction of the design lead whereas on decentralised #FOSS projects every dev pulls towards his vision and the design lead needs to push back with mere persuasion.
Especially in projects starved of contributors that's a really hard thing.
Dag Ågren ↙︎↙︎↙︎
Jens ♥@imani your theory is based on either a fallacy or gross generalization or simplification.
andyeb@imani also, majority of developers cannot wear an end user hat.
@andyeb It is my experience that often a lot don't care to try and even if they can't perfectly expect an end users needs trying does count for a lot.
التنينوكس@imani I suggest you read on design systems. There are many that work very well, like HIG and Material.
TheOuterLinux ✅@imani I'm pretty sure most open source software, especially #foss, are done by individuals and then get forked over and over until people like one of them. Then, there are members. But... because GPL is what it is, even the "committee-fied" version can still be forked by any individual. So, however "deep" your wording may sound, as someone who actually involves themselves in these things 24/7, I'm confused at what your point is. It sounds like a millennial web dev problem.
Lance Haig@imani I just hope to get some help with my ISS app. I am really bad at UI etc...
Trolli Schmittlauch 🦥@imani I guess @jancborchardt might have an opinion on that
Jan C. Borchardt 🦆@schmittlauch @imani design can absolutely be parceled apart. That's what styleguides are for. :) And many projects have big design teams with lots of different people working together. Also check out https://opensourcedesign.net
@schmittlauch @imani it's terrible to use cause:
- it's difficult to get into all the complicated tools to work on it
- the culture can be toxic
- design work is not valued so much
- people think settings and options are great
- … and other reasons
- it's difficult to get into all the complicated tools to work on it
- the culture can be toxic
- design work is not valued so much
- people think settings and options are great
- … and other reasons
BjarniBjarniBjarni 🙊 🇮🇸 🍏@imani I think you may be on to something here!
But I also think often OSS is terrible to use, simply because nobody made an effort to make it otherwise.
The really successful OSS, the OSS that has funding and full time devs, is mostly developer or admin tooling and user interface is relatively low in the priority list for such things. Techies are used to figuring stuff out.
OSS end-user facing software is created by a much more constrained and limited talent pool.
Brendan Howell@imani I don't think I agree. FLOSS is usually less seamless because it doesn't need to hide the underlying functioning of the code. It can be awkward at first but that's not necessarily a bad thing. And seamlessness can be a very infantilizing, manipulative commercial concept when taken far enough. (I'm kind of paraphrasing Femke Snelting¹ here.)
kavbojka@imani I think the sheer volume of FOSS makes this an impossible statement to make. That's like saying "toilet paper is terrible to use" or "plates are terrible to use". Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Open source just means the source code is open not that there is no funding or organization. This blanket "FOSS is ugly and worse" idea tends to be a trite popular refrain and it'd be more useful to focus on the specific software.
PyrettaGrimm
bhaugen> each piece of FOSS software is designed in isolation, ignoring other software that will interact with it or be used alongside it.
Not in the fediverse or in the https://www.loomio.org/g/exAKrBUp/open-app-ecosystem
Open App Ecosystem
Welcome !<br><br>This is a neutral group to talk about how we can build a suite of interoperable, open source tools which support transparent, democratic, and decentralized organizing.<br><br>It's not a working group, but becomes a resource where all creators can gather to exchange information about their projects and practices.<br><br>Also, if you have an idea or if you want to work on something concrete you can start discussing it here. At some point it's good to create your own loomio's group (or whatever you want to use) to work on your project.<br><br>Don't hesitate to go on this github page to know more about it.<br>
Pretty much the same in the Linux operating systems; See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
Everything is supposed to be able to work together.
Elias Mårtenson@kavbojka
Another way to think about it is that a certain (very high, actually) proportion of software is horrible. It's just that horrible open source software can find niche users that keeps the project going. Horrible commercial software probably won't make much money and is therefore more likely to be dropped.
We're just seeing the survivors, and open source software is more likely to survive.
@imani
@imani pretty much correct. Each piece of FOSS software is designed in isolation, ignoring other software that will interact with it or be used alongside it.
Matti Minkkinen@imani
Interesting perspective, although the beginning statement is a bit too categorical. So we need more visionaries, but maybe a different kind, open source design visionaries?
Interesting perspective, although the beginning statement is a bit too categorical. So we need more visionaries, but maybe a different kind, open source design visionaries?
Nicholas Frota@imani oh yeah.
Believe me, I tried.
There’s also some contempt for the user there... some disrespect.