StrypeySep 16, 2018
I just happened to have a peek at the current state of the #fediverse page on Wikipedia. At what point did the meaning of "fediverse" expand to describe all the federated social networks, regardless of what protocol they use? Is this now the accepted usage? Do the XMPP social apps count (Movim, Salut-a-Toi)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
Fediverse - Wikipedia

Show threadbhaugenSep 16, 2018

@strypey

For me, it's if they can federate. Might be more than one fediverse.

Show threadStrypeySep 16, 2018

@bhaugen "fediverse" originally described only the OStatus apps. The apps federating using Diaspora's protocol set were "The Federation". See Sean's article from a year ago:
https://medium.com/we-distribute/a-quick-guide-to-the-free-network-c069309f334

Usage seems to have drifted since then to being a catch-all term, and I guess I'm just wondering if that's a consensus or if there' anyone who thinks a narrower definition is still useful?

A quick guide to The Free Network - We Distribute - Medium

Today, we dive into two spaces on the federated social web, look at their history and the players behind them, and talk about their potential futures.

We Distribute
Show threadStrypeySep 16, 2018
@bhaugen I'm leery of creating novel vocab for the run of it, but it seems to me that the fediverse now has many more kinds of activities going in it (image-sharing, music-streaming, video-streaming, link-sharing etc). Each of these activities is like a mini-federation of its own, that needs to be explained to newbies somehow.
Show threadStrypeySep 16, 2018
@bhaugen for example, there are 2 fediverse apps focusing on image-sharing; PixelFed and Anfora (formerly Zinat). The first one was Quit.im, which was built as a web client for #GNUsocial, so once the AP plug-in for GS is rolled out (hopefully by the end of the year), if Quit.im is still in active development, there will be 3. If #MediaGoblin rolls out AP support there will be 4. Others may emerge. Does this 'image-verse' sub-federation need it own name and identity so users can understand it?
Show threadmike_hales 💔*!?¿*Sep 18, 2018

@strypey @bhaugen What do you guys make of the Dweb summit last month
https://decentralizedweb.net/
Notably Juan Benet
https://decentralizedweb.net/videos/talk-juan-benetdweb-progress-where-have-we-been-whats-next/
1st 25min = celebration of fediversal nature of decentralised web (not ActivityPub centred)
2nd 25min = challenges to be met next
From my non-hacker viewpoint, I'm unable to tell where fediverse and Dweb join up, where they branch, where they run parallel. They all matter, for sure

Plenty of 'big picture' call to arms eg cory doctorow
https://decentralizedweb.net/cory-doctorow/

Decentralized Web Summit 2018: Global Visions / Working Code

We invite you to join us at the Decentralized Web Summit!

Show threadStrypeySep 18, 2018
@mike_hales @bhaugen the #fediverse is a small subset of the #DWeb, which also includes Scuttlebutt, IFPS, WebTorrent etc etc:
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/07/introducing-the-d-web/
Introducing the Dweb – Mozilla Hacks - the Web developer blog

This is the first post in a series about the distributed/decentralized web, introducing projects that cover social communication, online identity, file sharing, new economic models, as well as high-level application ...

Mozilla Hacks – the Web developer blog
Show threadbhaugenSep 18, 2018

@strypey @mike_hales

Strypey has been following more of this stuff than me.

I've been following mostly three streams that I think are potentially usable for distributed economic networks: ActivityPub, SSB, and Holochain,

I think all of these developments were spawned from a disturbance in the Internets caused by surveillance capitalism, e.g. FB and Google in particular.

Some of them will converge. Those that converge will survive and create something different.

Show threadStrypeySep 18, 2018
@bhaugen @mike_hales there's a fascinating history here that can summed up in the phrase "port 80 pollution". Basically corporate LANs connected to the net via TCP/IP but were super-cautious with their firewalls so the only net service users inside those networks could reliably access was the web (on port 80). This, combined with the DotCom bubble, mean that everything started migrating to the web (webmail, web forums instead of UseNet, web clients for IRC etc), as that's where the users were.
Show threadStrypeySep 18, 2018
@bhaugen @mike_hales combine all that with the re-emergence of Apple PCs and desktop GNU-Linux, so native apps had to do more work than web apps to be cross-platform, and the huge $ being made off leasing domain names and HTTPS certs, and you start to understand why a client/server tool (originally just one of many net tools) came to dominate the net to the point that most people don't know that the net and the web are not the same thing.
Show threadStrypeySep 18, 2018
@bhaugen @mike_hales curiously, the emergence of mobile devices is what started to reverse this. Again, accidents of history; websites taking a long time to become mobile-friendly, and users finding app stores more appealing than downloading random software off websites, meant that apps start migrating off the web and back to being native. Suddenly decentralized tech started looking realistic and appealing again.
Show threadStrypey
@bhaugen @mike_hales thus the coining of the "DWeb" PR phrase, an attempt by people invested in the web to stay relevant. Most of the "DWeb" is not the web at all, it's just the net being what it is; a P2P medium. Eg Scuttlebutt has nothing to do with the web (HTTP servers/clients). It's just another net tool, like SSH or IRC or BitTorrent.
Sep 18, 2018 at 2:07pmWeb
Show threadmike_hales 💔*!?¿*Sep 18, 2018
@strypey Aha! P2P is the pivot, I feel. P2P-commons is where I stand - not as anything necessarily to do with the net, but as a political and economic commitment - beyond Capital and the State . . the net/web/Dweb just one (critical) field of struggle. Alongside #solidarityeconomy #culturalcommons #usevalue economy #transverse practices across communities ensnared by conflict. Sort-of anarcho but . . cuddlier? ;-) 'associationist'? making-oriented? Big-hearted, nurturing, tool-friendly
@bhaugen