θͺΏε
Eugen RochkoI'm not happy with how the Wil Wheaton situation was resolved. An admin was overwhelmed with frivolous reports about him and felt forced to exile him. I've said before that I think it sets a dangerous precedent on how a large group of people can mobilize to drive anyone off the fediverse. Mob rule is universally dangerous: Mods and admins must examine evidence and decide based on wrongdoing and danger, and not on how many times someone was reported.
Occultist Warlock@Gargron amen!
cap'n crush@Gargron People with different opinions than mine should never be allowed to speak
Sally Strange@knotlump People who reduce complex matters of bigotry, power, and social dynamics to "different opinions than mine" should voluntarily abstain from speaking until they figure out how now to be absurdly disingenuously reductive on the subject
@Sallystrange Thanks for helping me make my point
joe@knotlump @Sallystrange that you're being disingenuous? Because you are.
@Smokinjoe @Sallystrange I should probably be silenced then.
@knotlump @Sallystrange you are quite the crybaby
@Smokinjoe @Sallystrange Excellent name calling. I'm just not cool with totalitarianism. Feel free to block me. I've cried myself to sleep before. I'll live
@knotlump @Smokinjoe People expressing the opinion that you're not being direct is not totalitarianism
@Sallystrange @Smokinjoe Totalitarianism is a group of people working to silence someone they don't agree with. Not just stop listening to, but silencing completely. That is dangerous. I don't know this Wheaton cat at all, sounds like he's a dick, so block him. Block all his accounts. The arrogance it takes to believe it's good idea to stop one individual from ever being heard again is astounding to me
@knotlump @Smokinjoe LOL @ "stop one individual from ever being heard from again"
Nobody is going to kill Wil Wheaton. If you can't make your point without blatantly dishonest analogies, maybe your point sucks. Also adding to the probability that your point sucks: commenting in total ignorance. Additional irony points: complaining about the arrogance of others in the same breath.
@Sallystrange @Smokinjoe I never said anyone was going to kill him. I'm satisfied that I've expressed my opinion and I was able to do so without making personal statements/judgements about you and so I plan to move on now. Have a nice life.
@knotlump @Smokinjoe How else would we "ensure that [Wil Wheaton] was never heard from again"? People want him away from here, not sleeping with the fishes. That's the trouble with weasel words!
@knotlump @Sallystrange shame you're also not cool with having a discussion in good faith
@Smokinjoe @Sallystrange Really? I've yet to call either one of you a name
@knotlump yes, really.
You began by making mountains out of ant hills, then doubled down by trying to make yourself a victim.
After that, I don't really see the need in taking you seriously.
@Smokinjoe I'm not a victim. Do whatever you want. Just expressing my opinion, I could care less if you like it
@knotlump @Smokinjoe Adherence to superficial norms of civility is not the same as engaging in good faith discussion
@Sallystrange @Smokinjoe I believe I was engaging in a good faith discussion. I expressed mine points of view and listened to yours. Take care
@knotlump @Smokinjoe You repeatedly framed the issue in overly simplified and misleading ways, using vague phrasing to escape accountability for being wrong & inflammatory
@Sallystrange @Smokinjoe We are not going to agree.
@knotlump @Smokinjoe Obviously, since you are wrong
@knotlump What is your point, and how does my pointed mockery of your use of weasel words help you make it?
_&@Gargron If the decision was made on his demonstrated historical behavior, he would have been out even faster.
Brittany Sneers@Gargron so the frivolous reports he and his sycophants filed were extremely cool and acceptable?
@bluepurplerain No, I am not saying that. But I've seen some reports coming from mastodon.social users *about* messages sent to Wil Wheaton, and *those* I can attest were not frivolous. There were rather graphic/violent messages there.
Neea@Gargron @bluepurplerain Can we have screenshot of this messages ?
Michael Lubert@Neea @Gargron @bluepurplerain They'd have to exist for there to be screen shots. It's easy to invent abuse when you're the creator of the platform and people are mad at you for a series of bad, selfish, and harmful decisions.
Piers Beckley@mlubert @Neea @Gargron @bluepurplerain I can confirm that I reported several abusive toots.
But hey, perhaps Iβm a false flag operation, and every message sent was actually filled with love?
care to give us an example of what you reported that was abusive?
@piersb @Neea @Gargron @bluepurplerain Again, prove it. But nobody took screenshots? Not a SINGLE ONE?
@piersb @Neea @Gargron @bluepurplerain Mods: "Hey, here's the abuse some people sent to him"
Everyone: "Wow, that's bad. We can see now why you overreacted in your response."
Instead, Mods: "Here's 3 conflicting reasons we can't prove and we're gonna call him the victim of an attack when in reality it's people reporting a known bad faith arguer who has a history of anti-trans behavor and support and who actively supports a rapist who's playing the victim card AGAIN"
@mlubert Shhh, I'm trying :P
maswan@Gargron
Yeah, as an instance admin I'd very much like a useful way of blocking/muting abuse reports from malicious users.
Yeah, as an instance admin I'd very much like a useful way of blocking/muting abuse reports from malicious users.
β¦Ί irick ππβ©@Gargron
I agree.
But moderation time is an inelastic resource. How can we better support admins who find this sort of workload dropped in their laps? Is there anyway we can build a buffer into the software?
I agree.
But moderation time is an inelastic resource. How can we better support admins who find this sort of workload dropped in their laps? Is there anyway we can build a buffer into the software?
π Doc Freemo 
π³π±
Chip@Gargron I think you're trying to do right here. But I also think this sets aside the genuinely frivolous reports coming from Wheaton and/or his supporters, and the damage that's done. I think there are issues the current rules don't take into account. For a start, please consider a rule against abusing the report system. There are larger issues with how Wheaton made people fearful but I don't have a solution.
@Gargron this really is not mob rule. This is many people responding to a person who has personally harmed many people.
CJ Mallard@Sallystrange @Gargron β¦and doing so with a DoS attack on the moderation system
βοΈβοΈβοΈ pnathan βοΈβοΈβοΈ@Gargron You need a public governance process with public recourse, not hordes of shadowy figures stabbing each other via the mod system. Mastodon.social needs not to be subject to a moderator's unilateral private decisions.
@pnathan This occurred on mastodon.cloud, not .social.
@Gargron Apologies; I frankly didn't follow that closely. I maintain my point, but I also say the same thing about any reasonably popular instance.
IMO public trials are public for a reason....
Ellie
Silence of the Dems πΌ@dennis_reichel @Gargron I do think it matters. An administrator should not be able to deliver unilateral negative effects without a juridical recourse agreed upon by the community. Even if it's something that needs immediate addressing, the accused needs to have recourse. Evidence needs to be held and presented if recourse is requested.
This is basic organization governance & management stuff here.