MK ⛄I don't trust anybody who doesn't like Kylo Ren, send toot
James Snow@some_qualia I really think you get a lot of insight into people based on whether or not they think Kylo is beyond or deserves redemption or not
Azure too@Frumple_James @some_qualia can I think he's beyond redemption _and_ was completely fucked over by Luke Skywalker being a dipshit who thought "lemme try to kill my friend's kid rq" was a real solution to "this kid is a bad boy sometimes"?
I don't think anyone who thinks he's probably beyond redemption is bad FWIW. I guess it's more a case of I find it interesting who does and doesn't have that level of sympathy for him
@aguyuno2 @some_qualia Personally, I view him very much as a young man who's been radicalised and internalised the idea that violence is the only way to process his trauma
@Frumple_James @aguyuno2 I'm not sure he had trauma, although he clearly had a meh childhood.
I'm along for whatever. I really narrowly was focused on "but do you *like* him." Not necessarily redemption. Even people who think it's irredeemable might *like* him.
I definitely like him as a character xD
He's definitely traumatised by what happened with Luke and he's perhaps not traumatised by Han and Leia but he DEFINITELY has abandonment issues. Add to that Snoke basically manipulated and groomed him and... bad times for poor Kylo
@some_qualia @aguyuno2 Someone pointed out not long after TFA that Kylo was basically groomed from childhood by Snoke (something further evidenced by novels) and that was a real eye opener to me.
@Frumple_James @aguyuno2 That's certainly fan theory, and I see the subtext (and I was THERE on Tumblr, lemme tell you), but I as someone who is no longer in fandom... fandom theories are some of the sloppiest things and I am glad I don't have to take them too seriously.
@Frumple_James @aguyuno2 Like, I remember this #discourse. I wrote some of this discourse. I'm glad to be ~freeeeee
@some_qualia @aguyuno2 Aye, but it's a fan theory that's, IMO, EXTREMELY well supported by the text.
@Frumple_James @aguyuno2 I don't think the novels count as the text, personally. I mean, they count as *a* text.
@some_qualia @aguyuno2 The novels merely confirm that the grooming has been going on since Ben was a child, so it's more a corroboration. I genuinely think Snoke's behaviour and other dialogue in TFA and TLJ supports the thesis. Snoke is clearly portrayed like an abusive stepdad too
@Frumple_James @aguyuno2 Sorry, bro, this is a stretch,, too me.
@Frumple_James @aguyuno2 And I was a biiiig name fan and have read all the evidence and yeah. I'm extremely tepid on Kylo Ren, abuse victim as canon. Fanon? Go wild. "It's canon?" I'm real tepid on that.
@some_qualia @Frumple_James I don't think he was abused like, directly, for sure. But I do think he grew up hearing stories about the great Luke Skywalker, knew he was a friend of the family, and knew this man straight up tried to kill him.
Which I mean, real talk, "killing the younglings" is some Anakin shit. I don't care what Luke's "reasons" were this was a kid.
It doesn't help that we can assume Luke didn't tell Han or Leia. Which would not have been good re: them trusting Luke first.
@some_qualia oh shit I spelled Leia right on my first try that never happens
go me
@aguyuno2 I just, idk... I like the idea maybe he's just... wrong. He's not radicalized because he has especial trauma nobody else has. He's just... wrong.
@some_qualia I mean hey, weirder things have happened.
Luke still a dick tho.
@aguyuno2 @some_qualia
Real talk, one of the best parts of TLJ was that Luke had really fallen from grace. Probably the most interesting thing they could have done with Luke's arc.
Real talk, one of the best parts of TLJ was that Luke had really fallen from grace. Probably the most interesting thing they could have done with Luke's arc.
@Frumple_James @some_qualia And naturally the thing that annoyed the dipshits the most.
GASP. HOW DARE U HAVE DEVELOPMENT.
The best thing that ever happened to Star Wars was Disney telling Lucas to get lost.
that said, if this is all getting too discoursey we can stop xD