Jim₿eLogic.Hodl 🔑May 10, 2022

This is the way 💪⚡ #zeroBaseFee
Opening a channel as I send this tweet.
---
RT @SwissRouting
Brand new #Bitcoin #LightningNetwork node up and running!

Using #CoreLightning (@Core_LN) with #zeroBaseFee for optimal routing (thanks to @renepickhardt).

Feel free to open a channel to me: https://amboss.space/node/0279f06eba0e1080f6a693201f090d0635a0e5dd2ef57d0207210e3d338133092e
https://twitter.com/SwissRouting/status/1523816834746789889

Amboss Space - Lightning Network Explorer

Lightning Network Explorer. Search for nodes and channels on the Lightning Network and get detailed information on them.

Amboss Space
SeccourFeb 26, 2022

Also decided to create the #ZeroBaseFee community on Amboss as I just saw the work @[email protected] & @[email protected]

For now only my "small" node will adopt the #ZeroBaseFee until I take the time to update the big one

Link to the community: https://amboss.space/community/ca791e03-92d8-45e8-82e7-26be96a39fe5

Amboss Space - Lightning Network Explorer

Lightning Network Explorer. Search for nodes and channels on the Lightning Network and get detailed information on them.

Amboss Space
Satoshis StreamSep 9, 2021

@adam and @dave could you set #zerobasefee for your nodes? Now all (podcasting) transactions cost 1 sat to start with.

Wherever I have liq I set base fee to 0 so micropayments flow better 😉

Anita PoschAug 14, 2021

Running #zerobasefee #dropthebase
https://basefee.ln.rene-pickhardt.de/
@renepickhardt @_einundzwanzig_ @HonigdachsPod
---
RT @aantonop
lncli updatechanpolicy --base_fee_msat 0

#zerobasefee
#dropthebase

https://basefee.ln.rene-pickhardt.de/
https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/1425907445717774340

Show threadopenomsJul 17, 2021
The concern remains with #zeroBaseFee:
to never route free (not even the 1 msat shards) the minimum feerate setting would be 1 000 000 ppm which is a 100% fee.
If it is not applied a payer with free CPU and and disk IO capacity would be incentivised to flood with msats.
Show threadopenomsJul 17, 2021
Correction:
Watch the "msat" in the OP.
The "rounding down" only applies to the sub-millisat earnings. HTLC and routing fees are accounted in msats.
This means with #zerobasefee at 100 ppm routing 9 sats (or 9999 msats) would be free.
At 1 ppm this would be 999 sats.
Show threadopenomsJul 16, 2021
@harding Yes, unfortunately the base fee is the floor, the presence of which does not work with their calculations.
As a payer it would be better to get rid of a variable, but I felt extremely annoyed by seeing hundreds of 0 fee forwards through my node today, hours after dropping the base fee.
#zerobasefee incentivises every payer to break up the amounts to many small pieces.
Show threadDavid A. HardingJul 16, 2021

@openoms I don't think Pickhardt's main claim is simpler routing; I think it's much more effective routing---i.e. fewer retries when sending significant amounts, leading to faster payments and fewer failures (all other things being equal). If it's as big a deal as he claims, I think it's probably worth considering making other changes to LN policies to allow it to work.

That said, I had a similar concern when I first heard he needed a #zerobasefee. There needs to be some sort of floor.

Show threadopenomsJul 16, 2021
The research is great but after seeing this action made my mind up quickly: https://twitter.com/openoms/status/1416089044967215106?s=19
A simpler model at the cost of routing incentives does not worth it.
---
RT @openoms
If you have #zeroBaseFee and 100 ppm feerate still routing 9999 sat payments for free.
Where you would count on 100ppm your node charges nothing for 100*9999.
With 1 sat basefee you would get exactly 100 sats both when rout…
https://twitter.com/openoms/status/1416089044967215106
openoms on Twitter

“If you have #zeroBaseFee and 100 ppm feerate still routing 9999 sat payments for free. Where you would count on 100ppm your node charges nothing for 100*9999. With 1 sat basefee you would get exactly 100 sats both when routing 1*999900 or 100*9999. #runTheNumbers #lightning ⚡ https://t.co/s6zBzACWm8”

Twitter
openomsJul 16, 2021
If you have #zeroBaseFee and 100 ppm feerate still routing 9999 sat payments for free.
Where you would count on 100ppm your node charges nothing for 100*9999.
With 1 sat basefee you would get exactly 100 sats both when routing 1*999900 or 100*9999.
#runTheNumbers #lightning ⚡
---
RT @alexbosworth
LN routing policy rounds down percentage fees and the lowest ppm is 1, so sometimes you can get totally free routing just by using multi-pat…
https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1415774383298121731
Alex Bosworth on Twitter

“LN routing policy rounds down percentage fees and the lowest ppm is 1, so sometimes you can get totally free routing just by using multi-path routing with shards that are 999,999 msats instead of 1mm msats. It's a good algorithm for getting away with routing lots and not paying.”

Twitter