Discussion. [Ongoing... I run for a train]Q. about pluralism: what about global south and indigenous scholars- are we also in a broken STS? Q. about Mannheim and utopia, more of a comment. Q. acknowledging the other [shouts!], what do we do about worldings that harm other worldings?

Discussion. Kelty picks up on Marres argument about pluralism of worlds (I missed that part above). Participation affords occassion to think about their (knowing Kuhnian term) incommensurability.

Marres. Finishes with Karl Mannheim arguing that politics of knowledge developed in a distinctly dangerous time. Kuhn got his world from Mannheim. Technocracy and populism both present ideologies and deny that we live in a broken world. Showing that is now task for STS

Marres. [Zoom breaks down on that cliff hanger]. In UK the state is now open about creating infrastructures that make social life a resource for innovation. There is a programme of the instrumentalisation of science for innovation (via 'science for society). Something enabled by the state and covered over by a solutionist discourse.

Marres. Intervention in the world through science and technology is no longer the dominant mode of politics. In NL right wing and technocracy are now aligned. Technocracy and populism seem both political and anti-political at the same time, scrambling the STS project.

Marres. Starts with Kuhn "we live in a different world". Is this the distinctive chord in STS? Focus on ontological shift not only as conceptual proposition but something that is happening in STS.

Barry. All efforts at politicization involve an attempt to contain the political. STS is against easy forms of politicization that move too rapidly. Latour's focus on empiricism of politics was misleading in not attending to different political currents that coincide (e.g. importance of capitalism, imperial history, geopolitics in current politics). Invokes Stuart Hall's focus on conjuncture- are conjunctures explosive or other kinds of reactions. This is what politicization is about.

Barry. At the same time political practices also have a technicity. These are increasingly a focus of STS scholarship. The normal stuff of politics that conventional political analysis has not addressed.

Barry. Importance of focusing on political situation today. STS once formed one element of a wider movement to take politicization beyond politics. STS scholarship was a means of politicization.