källarkattI'm arguing with someone about societal change 101 and I really don't get this whole "You shouldn't be mean to oppressors, change will come by itself eventually" because honestly when has that ever been the case? WWII wasn't won by the allies sending a nice but firm letter to Hitler, LGBTQ+ didn't really kick of until the Stonewall riots, Black people weren't taking seriously in the U.S until people like Malcom X and Martin Luther King stood up for themselves and pushed for change
Prof. Monophylos Fortikos@kellarkatt I believe that one of the most insidious and damaging problems that we face as Americans is a very strong national myth, taught to us in manifold forms from childhood, that all of our serious problems have already been solved. Our grade-school history books are full of repetitions of this myth: a social problem once existed, great people rose up to solve it for us, laws were passed, and now we are merely coasting downward from a victory already won.
@kellarkatt I believe this is partly why so many Americans refuse to acknowledge systemic racism and cringe to see any direct interaction with racists. They were taught that Dr. King and Obama's election solved racism, yet here are all these leftists decrying a problem that ostensibly no longer exists. No wonder they seem to think that leftists are somehow _creating_ this problem.
Digitalpotato@Monophylos @kellarkatt What also doesn't help is that when leftists point it out, they get either shouted down because "others have it worse" or people start thinking that they're crybabies because they're talking about what goes on in first-world countries.
@Digitalpotato @kellarkatt Very true. How often are we berated for focusing on social problems in our own neighbourhoods, rather than wringing our hands about the plight of the oppressed in Syria or Iran? (About which suffering these disingenuous critics also care nothing, except as a rhetorical club or as an excuse to start a war.)
@Monophylos @kellarkatt And how often are we being told about that from THE LEFT as well? The left is at constant civil war.
@Digitalpotato @Monophylos God yeah, the stuff from the left is so bittersweet tho (imo) because it at least means we are trying to examine ourselves but more often than not it leads us to discarding anything that isn't absolutely perfect and the dream of a unified left falls apart once again
@kellarkatt @Digitalpotato I rather wonder if a truly unified left is even possible. To me, being a leftist means (among other things) acceptance of the fundamental variety and mutability of human experience. We have ideals, but we do not worship AN ideal. Rightists view "unity" as a Procrustean bed upon which they wish to force all of humanity, stretching or amputating whatever needs to fit. The left can never do that, so true unity among leftists will always be elusive.
josef@Monophylos @Digitalpotato @kellarkatt there's definitely also this kinda "wokefetishism" where people love to call out others for supporting things (or people) that *SEEM* good, but upon close inspection (i.e. 500 pages of reading) turn out to be Actually Bad, and i think people often stay away from leftist communities because they just don't have the energy to ensure all their opinions are sufficiently well-researched
@Monophylos @Digitalpotato @kellarkatt the right is comparatively easy to understand, and therefore, easier to get involved in as a community, probably
@jk @Monophylos @Digitalpotato yeah like "oh you thought this candidate/party was good because of their 2,876 different policies? well they are actually wrong about one thing so they are worthless"