@BryanLunduke Society is so polarized these days that we probably need to resort to anonymity to start discussions on sensitive topics. There needs to be an ombudsman type of role to enable and manage anonymous discourse.
I've made my rather dim view of "the memo" known. In any case I not only defend his right to say it but Google's right to act in response as they see fit. Does not mean I think either did right. Google foolishly decided to pour petrol on the fire instead of contain it.
@wilbr @BryanLunduke Though I found the memo distasteful myself I was still quite alarmed at the level of reaction, but I am also accustomed to a very different workplace environment (construction in heavy industrial sites like refineries) where language is, let's say, FAR less diplomatic and more blunt.
But it does underscore the need for such "nerds" to have some sort of support and education related to such discourse and an anonymous yet moderated and trusted outlet for such discussion.
@msh @[email protected] testosterone-laden physical workplaces are definitely very different from diverse office jobs. I've been using family analogies like Thanksgiving Dinner a lot lately. It's not that you don't have free speech, it's that we're here for a purpose and we're not gonna get distracted by one person's weird ramblings.
More to the point, productivity in "knowledge" jobs is very dependent upon not getting distracted. Opposite of physical jobs. Weird ranty memos are not cool
@wilbr @BryanLunduke It's REALLY apparent you haven't worked in construction, commissioning or startup of commercial or industrial sites. In my experience they are more complex than any given software project because of their multidisciplinary nature. And trust and communication is a matter of safety.
But I agree, such a memo where I typically work would warrant disciplinary action. But less due to causing offense and more for being an inappropriate forum for the topic in general.
@msh @[email protected] it's both, the offense part is because it directly pertains to hundreds of coworkers.
I've done IT work for a developer, I'm not saying distraction is less dire, I'm just saying that the gruff, succinct, and occasionally ragchewing bearing of a construction site is disruptive in an office of programmers for half a dozen reasons.
My last gig they moved me next to a retired Marine salesman. I had to get noise cancelling headphones and ducked out of lunch early.
@wilbr @BryanLunduke There is no place for that in ANY work environment really! Gender diversity is obviously huge challenge in skilled trades too. The crap talk generally happens in the lunch trailer in my case not during the actual work and it is sometimes MANY orders of magnitude more than the worst that was said in "the memo".
I think tech, especially in silicon valley, is so insular that they don't know what the "normal" world is like and how it deals with such things.
Mark Shane Hayden
Moved to @