RosethornRanger (it/its) š³ļøāā§The less the state gets to weigh in on, the harder it is for it to get rid of us.
pocket expert š@RosethornRanger are there any resources for trans men or are we expected to just rawdog this reality on our own
not combative but it's kinda Sad that diyhrt is only talked about in context of those who undergo feminizing therapy and not masculinizing one (let alone people who want a mix and match for custom results) as if idk, we don't deserve autonomy
not combative but it's kinda Sad that diyhrt is only talked about in context of those who undergo feminizing therapy and not masculinizing one (let alone people who want a mix and match for custom results) as if idk, we don't deserve autonomy
Njion the Cofftea Dragon ā@ko @RosethornRanger I think the reason is that testosterone is waaaay more controlled than estrogen and publicly talking about where you can acquire it might constitute a serious crime depending on where you are.
@njion @RosethornRanger be crimes do gay or something
i went on DIY T in a place where it's a controlled substance and i would do it again if i get my preferred method taken away from me
yes, it's slightly harder than feminizing HRT but don't act like it's impossible
i went on DIY T in a place where it's a controlled substance and i would do it again if i get my preferred method taken away from me
yes, it's slightly harder than feminizing HRT but don't act like it's impossible
@ko @RosethornRanger I'm not acting like it's impossible I'm acting like it's a crime that you can get in very real trouble for if you post about it openly. So most people don't post about it openly. Be gay for crime but for fucks sake don't *post* about the crime
@njion @RosethornRanger true siblinghood is when we run away from supporting our "brothers" because it's a "crime" to let them have an opportunity to seize their damn body autonomy in your hands
just say you don't give a fuck about masc queers or something. are you gonna stop being queer if they make it illegal too?
just say you don't give a fuck about masc queers or something. are you gonna stop being queer if they make it illegal too?
@ko @RosethornRanger No one is running away from anything or withdrawing support. Resources regarding where you can get T exist and are being shared around. Privately. Over secure channels. As to not put people in danger unnecessarily. Because that's the smart and safe way. Is it only siblinghood when you unnecessarily endanger yourself just to make others feel a little more seen? Do you not realize that openly sharing this information on social media would immediately draw attention and lead to DIY HRT sources getting raided and shut down? Like, think about this for just a second instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that this is a case of fellow queers not giving a shit about transmascs. No one is stopping you from posting about where you can buy T but don't be surprised when the source suddenly shuts down a week from now.
E is much less regulated so you can make posts like this without endangering yourself or the suppliers. With T this is not the case in many countries.
@njion @RosethornRanger yes i am thinking, and for a demographic that loves to yell about wanting to straight up kill your oppressors (shocker, murder is also a crime! so is "terrorism"! so all of your activism is also an act of crime by law!) you sure love to act like lawyers when it's time to show up for mascs.
and i'm concluding y'all hate masc queers because i also see how y'all treat us in many spaces, we have to feminize ourselves to be palatable in any way or shape to y'all.
quit fucking lecturing me like you know better about everything, because i've got enough shitty lectures from fake demons who act all mighty and scary unless they are told to care for their masc siblings
and i'm concluding y'all hate masc queers because i also see how y'all treat us in many spaces, we have to feminize ourselves to be palatable in any way or shape to y'all.
quit fucking lecturing me like you know better about everything, because i've got enough shitty lectures from fake demons who act all mighty and scary unless they are told to care for their masc siblings
@njion @RosethornRanger that being said i'm cutting it here, because to put it simply, i'd have a better time making a fucking brick wall understand the core issue.
i don't want anti-masc lunatics on my turf
i don't want anti-masc lunatics on my turf
kimapr ā šŗšæ ā§ ā¢ ā¤ļøš§”š¤š©·š@[email protected] @njion @RosethornRanger i canāt see any of koās posts here (fediblock or epic federation fail?) but one resource i can find for trans men is the diyhrt.info transmasculine guide
it lists sources too (publicly, much unlike your suggestion that itās all being shared privately). curiously, it seems like none of them target trans men, but instead bodybuilders. the sources page also links a bodybuilding forum, in which you can probably find more sources, all listed publicly.
this is pretty interesting tbh, it seems like T is more illegal to obtain but thereās a much bigger underground economy for it, mostly cis men wanting bigger muscles, than there is for E, which is almost(?) entirely trans women as cis women donāt have communities for DIY menopause treatment.. iām curious to know how difficult it actually is to obtain T vs E given this
like at very least the risk profile for diyhrt sources is different. T ones arenāt gonna get hatecrimed as they donāt primarily target trans people but they are selling controlled substances so cops might come for that, while E isnāt controlled usually besides being prescription medicine but itās transgender-specific..
cactus (211695-343)@ko @RosethornRanger diyhrt.wiki has a transmasc guide and list some sources, however it is very limited.
idk any recopilatory of it but i try to give options based on what is written there and a local friend who is doing official HRT but who serves as a reference.
there is also a lack of transneutral guide and sources
@echedellelr @RosethornRanger if i wasn't stupid with maths and chemistry (and had more reference points than myself) i would straight up write my own guides and start spamming the links until every single transmasc on earth sees that guide
alas
alas
with maths and chemistry
i don't see you as stupid mew but also there are calculators for dosage that could be modified mrow
aside that, idk if those wikis are collaborative, i wish they are.
most of the T can be obtained in dopping websites but sadly i don't have people of reference in a gym that is not a gymbro (and i don't approach to them). i wish there was a non-exhaustive list of trustable providers.
@echedellelr @RosethornRanger yeah the best bet is the gymbro sites (and that's where i got mine too)
i can only speak for my source that they didn't send me a bad batch during my tenure there, but of course there is Always A Risk to it
i can only speak for my source that they didn't send me a bad batch during my tenure there, but of course there is Always A Risk to it
@echedellelr (also fwiw, i don't call myself stupid in a selfdeprecating way here; i genuinely am not made for STEM thus i don't want to be involved with calculations especially when in the end things will vary for every person. i can only speak of my dosages but i am just one guy
@ko meow :3 is okay awawawa
Miranda // erin // Eileen@ko @RosethornRanger itās talked about by people who do it and have experience with it that comes from knowing how their own body reacts and how to manage their own hormonal health.
some authors of the online resources that do also mention as much of masculinizing HRT as they can without that experience, but usually with disclaimers saying as much. theyāre not professionals, they figure it out on their own, in their free time, yet they take responsibility for the effects of this information on other peopleās lives. they decide to put in that work and take that responsibility because it affects their own lives in the first place.
all those resources exist because we did not wait for anyone else to give us permission to have that autonomy you mention, we took it without asking. thatās kinda the point of autonomy.
Iām kinda active in that effort to spread information. sometimes, I have conversations about DIY HRT with other trans people and sometimes that includes transmasc people. so far, Iāve been consistently confused by their reactions to the topic being much more, uh, apathetic? than I get from transfems, even when I say that the DIY community is very aware of the lack of transmasc-focused information that we need contributions, that we need more of it to publish it along whatās already there about transfem stuff.
I donāt know if thatās a universal thing, but itās definitely been my own experience. and yes, I know, Iām sure there are some transfem authors of those resources who donāt care about trans guys, fuck them, but also thereās enough of those who do care to give space and reach to stuff written by transmasc people about their HRT.
but yāall first need to do what we did - organize and get people with the lived experience of DIY HRT to put in the work to contribute based on that experience.
and then keep talking about it as much as we do, to make others aware that itās a possibility and maintain that awareness. it doesnāt happen by itself, it takes work too, as all important community stuff does.
check out diyhrt.info and diyhrt.wiki for sites that do include transmasc-focused resources. let your transmasc friends know about them. tell them to do the same thing. get this going.
@erin @RosethornRanger i would write a whole ass essay on why the guys are apathetic (maybe it has something to do with "T is poison" mentality spread by the girls in many queer spaces and the wider problem of (trans)masc queers being left on their own especially when they're far into their transition; the spaces fucking HATE mascs unless they feminize themselves back to be palatable to the rest, and that's a problem both cis and trans queer people are to be blamed for), but this is not the profile, time or space to do so
i thankfully know my shit, i am more than welcome to provide sources to a brother in need - the only thing that stopped me from making a guide that can be shoved down every trans guy's throat is that i only have my own dosage experiences with T as reference points and i don't want to put people in danger, just cuz those doses work for me they might nor work for someone else
i suggest we start first with not demonizing testosterone (even if it has given unwanted effects to some trans folk), and actually start talking about the possibility being there, and removing the monopoly on the word trans meaning just anyone transfeminine (as there is a god awful amount of normies who think trans = transfem and don't even know trans guys exist)
it's a collaborative effort, don't tell us to just "go our own way and organize", because if we do that there's still going to be complaints that we aren't listening to every other demographic which is apparently Our Job Somehow
i thankfully know my shit, i am more than welcome to provide sources to a brother in need - the only thing that stopped me from making a guide that can be shoved down every trans guy's throat is that i only have my own dosage experiences with T as reference points and i don't want to put people in danger, just cuz those doses work for me they might nor work for someone else
i suggest we start first with not demonizing testosterone (even if it has given unwanted effects to some trans folk), and actually start talking about the possibility being there, and removing the monopoly on the word trans meaning just anyone transfeminine (as there is a god awful amount of normies who think trans = transfem and don't even know trans guys exist)
it's a collaborative effort, don't tell us to just "go our own way and organize", because if we do that there's still going to be complaints that we aren't listening to every other demographic which is apparently Our Job Somehow
@erin @RosethornRanger that being said i'm just One Guy and not a local CEO of the transmasc population in my region, hell i'm literally a neet who's the token trans guy in my friend group 
ā
ā@ko @RosethornRanger Iām with you on all the issues you just brought up.
one of the most fascinating, amazing and mutually validating experiences Iāve ever had in my transition was talking with a trans guy about effects of hormones, both in puberty and from HRT, that we personally experienced and describing the exact same ones in a completely different light. it felt good to hear this guy talk about what testosterone did for him and see his joy, it made everything make sense beyond all doubt, and so it felt good for him to hear me express my joy about effects of estradiol - because as much as we respectively hated those effects in our own bodies, this perspective made us feel how real our own and each otherās identities are.
every trans person needs this kind of experience, especially those transfems who āhate testosteroneā. and if they still donāt get it, yeah, be mad. itās warranted.
when I say ādo the workā, I donāt mean āgo away and do everything yourselfā, but there are things you - as the transmasc community - need to do yourself.
you just pointed out that the only data you have is your own and this limits what you can take responsibility for. the reason we have things like estrannai.se and widespread estradiol dosing guides is that a bunch of transfems spent years trawling research papers and reports, gathering data in the community, building statistical models out of that, figuring out unusual reactions and so on. no one but us could do it. no one but you can do it for masculinizing HRT.
similarly, every time I get a question about HRT from a trans guy (I sometimes do), I really fucking wish there was a transmasc equivalent of transfemscience.org - a site that exists because a small team of volunteers spent the last 7 years and counting on finding, analyzing and compiling any and all relevant research and community data into a resource that tackles questions that elude most endocrinologists. but for there to be a transmascscience.org, yāall need to do it.
and let me also point out: the trans community has a huge problem with an unnecessary divide fueled by grudge thatās perpetuating more grudge.
thereās the absolute fucking toxic bullshit some transfems do of seeing all trans guys by default as some kind of enemy because of this entire ātransmisogyny affected/exemptā discourse. I refuse to give any validity to it because I see a stance that throws collective responsibility at a group for a failing of some members as fundamentally wrong, fucked up and, when done by another marginalized person, self-destructive too.
but thereās some shared-responsibility-shaped toxic bullshit coming from your side the completely unnecessary fence too, with all the same implications. Iāll stay engaged despite it, but itās not fucking helping.
letās maybe do the work to get rid of the stupid fence despite and regardless of toxic bullshit and grudges?
if we wait for everyone to come to their senses and apologize, as nice as that would have been, weāre going to wait forever. weāre all human regardless of gender, or being cis or trans, and with that comes a chance of having toxic assholes among us and using the same labels as us.
@erin @RosethornRanger i am not going to apologize for what other trans guys do just like i dont expect every trans woman to apologize for what other trans women do
however i am not going to sit around and take punches from sisters in the name of some sort of wicked "punching up" because there is simply no "more privileged" trans person solely because of their gender, we both are riding on the same shitty train carriage destined to a certain death, funded by the governments of this world, neither transfem nor transmasc people "have it easier". point of view depends on point of sitting
i'm open to cooperation but not at the cost of my gender being considered as inherently inferior, worthless, malicious or otherwise 'bad'; those times are long gone and i am not going to take any toxicity in the name of keeping the community altogether
again, i'm just a guy, you're just a gal and none of us are CEOs of transgender in respective regions. i personally can only appeal to people to build shit, if i could build anything then i would be already doing that, best i can do is point guys in need to the right place if they need a source
anyways my main point of my original reply was and is, "don't talk about diy hrt only in the context of feminizing hrt" because it only further spreads the notions that T being regulated is Maybe Actually Good After All, that diy hrt for transmascs isn't a thing, and generally it doesn't help the community as a whole
putting expectations on me as a person is a futile effort, i have my share of personal and much more affective-to-my-daily-existence problems to take care of and even that i cannot bear anymore, and not everyone is fit for leading or participating in Movements (i'm not everyone), best i can do is what i'm doing right now *and* also being that one annoying idiot in replies that constantly reminds that trans guys deserve shit too
however i am not going to sit around and take punches from sisters in the name of some sort of wicked "punching up" because there is simply no "more privileged" trans person solely because of their gender, we both are riding on the same shitty train carriage destined to a certain death, funded by the governments of this world, neither transfem nor transmasc people "have it easier". point of view depends on point of sitting
i'm open to cooperation but not at the cost of my gender being considered as inherently inferior, worthless, malicious or otherwise 'bad'; those times are long gone and i am not going to take any toxicity in the name of keeping the community altogether
again, i'm just a guy, you're just a gal and none of us are CEOs of transgender in respective regions. i personally can only appeal to people to build shit, if i could build anything then i would be already doing that, best i can do is point guys in need to the right place if they need a source
anyways my main point of my original reply was and is, "don't talk about diy hrt only in the context of feminizing hrt" because it only further spreads the notions that T being regulated is Maybe Actually Good After All, that diy hrt for transmascs isn't a thing, and generally it doesn't help the community as a whole
putting expectations on me as a person is a futile effort, i have my share of personal and much more affective-to-my-daily-existence problems to take care of and even that i cannot bear anymore, and not everyone is fit for leading or participating in Movements (i'm not everyone), best i can do is what i'm doing right now *and* also being that one annoying idiot in replies that constantly reminds that trans guys deserve shit too
dragora@ko @RosethornRanger Maybe, just maybe, you should stop expecting trans women to do the work for you.
ah yeah, a man saying I am saying he doesn't deserve autonomy because I am talking about my own experiences instead of his
its a day that ends in y
info on T exists and I actively share it when and where I can
this was, as you put it, rawdogged on my own
should trans women not talk about being trans women?
Mitsunee | å
é³@ko @RosethornRanger one resource I know is literally mentioned in the image in the original post, the site I used to learn about blood tests had information for both transfemme and transmasc blood levels (I can find the link again when I'm at my desk, might've been in German tho). the only thing I don't know an equivalent for is transfemscience.org unfortunately.
more than half of what I know came from private conversations and reading/watching experience reports online. I did stumble upon a few transmasc youtubers on my frontpage over the years as well, so they aren't "hidden by the algorithm" either. you just have to look, and yelling at transfems is not a search engine.
more than half of what I know came from private conversations and reading/watching experience reports online. I did stumble upon a few transmasc youtubers on my frontpage over the years as well, so they aren't "hidden by the algorithm" either. you just have to look, and yelling at transfems is not a search engine.
Not a Spring Onion@RosethornRanger
Public service announcement: Taking too much spirulina algaea might turn you into a dryad.
Public service announcement: Taking too much spirulina algaea might turn you into a dryad.
lesser scribe Anna of True Novembers, resident of the principality of Debian in its XIV eraā®2h agothe guides missing "what if you dont have money fot any of that" 