Neil Brown5d ago

I do zero analytics on any of my web traffic, so this is just a guess, but I should be surprised if many people come to my sites via Google.

I am just a bloke with a Raspberry Pi running a website and two blogs.

I suspect that, of whatever traffic I get, most comes from links I (and others) post here, and from RSS subscribers.

Similarly, I don't think that I found any of the blogs or sites that I read regularly via a search engine.

Word of mouth (webrings, people posting about stuff they've enjoyed / their own work etc.) ftw.

Show threadDrew Mochak
@neil If google is no longer a search engine people will use another search engine. Every wrong answer drives traffic away. I can't imagine anyone will want to use this.
May 20 at 5:41amWeb
Show threadNeil Brown5d ago

@prism

> If google is no longer a search engine people will use another search engine.

I suspect that this could be true for people who actively want a search engine.

I don't know how many people just want an answer.

I agree though that, if the proffered answer is wrong too often, that it will drive (some) people away.

Show threadDrew Mochak5d ago
@neil If they just wanted "the answer" they would get it from the summary of the site without clicking onto the article anyway. Not great for you but I don't see how it makes the situation worse. The AI is just removing the pesky source of knowledge outside of the googlesphere. Since google does not own all knowledge, there's no way that the result they'll get will be more reliable than searching the web. Even the AI bros will use perplexity.
Show threadSteve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺5d ago

@neil @prism my wife complained about Google presenting an AI answer whenever she searches. Which is a potential problem because her university have rules about AI use. I said "so just use a different search engine" and got back "what do you mean? I thought Google was the only one".

She is not super into computers - she uses them as a tool, rather than as an interest, but she is not a luddite by any means and learnt how to code a few years ago.

So that, is an insight into "normal people".

Show threadSteve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺5d ago

@neil @prism IMHO, if you expect a large migration away from Google due to enshitification you are dreaming - the vast majority of people have probably never even thought about whether an alternative exists.

Much like new tech (EVs, heat pumps, etc.) people won't switch to an alternative unless they know people who already use it. And this is true even though the cost of trying an alternative search engine is basically zero.

Show threadSteve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺5d ago

@neil @prism I guess the potential of an "inferior" search engine missing results that you would have found, had you been using Google, might be considered a cost?

Much like other new tech, people only consider the cost of switching rather than the cost of not switching (e.g. drivers are quick to point out all the things that their ICE car can do which an EV can't, but ignore the things that their ICE can't do but an EV can)

Show threadSteve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺5d ago
@neil @prism there seems to be little consideration given to how the pervasiveness of AI is a real problem in some contexts. E.g. schools often need to allow people to use MS Office in exams, but having Copilot available to basically do the exam for the student is an obvious no-no. Careful whitelisting/blacklisting on the web filter is required (no help from MS or the exam boards on this one... And yes, this was a real world incident I am aware of!)
Show threadDrew Mochak5d ago
@steve @neil You're framing a success case as a failure. She identified that google's AI results are no longer fit for her purpose, so you suggested she switch search engines. She might not have actually decided to do it, but that's only because she can ignore the AI results and use the actual real information. If it's just AI results, that forces the issue.
Show threadSteve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺5d ago
@prism @neil my point was that although she identified an issue, she was unaware of any solution, so was stuck with Google. In this case, I was able to advise, but the vast vast majority of people do not know anyone more knowledgeable about this stuff than themselves.
Show threadDrew Mochak5d ago
@steve @neil The vast majority of people don't have a tech-literate friend/child/cousin/former roommate who can suggest to solve their google problem with not-Google? Maybe I'm giving people too much credit but that doesn't seem like a huge hurtle to me.
Show threadSteve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺5d ago
@prism @neil I think you are out of touch with reality
Show threadDrew Mochak5d ago
@steve @neil Probably. https://bsky.app/profile/jjaron.bsky.social/post/3mma3axtars2c
Jacob Aron (@jjaron.bsky.social)

Ok I've designed an LLM prompt to make Google AI just give you a list of links. It's longer than you might think because it kept ignoring the instructions. This is efficient. This is The Future™

Bluesky Social
Show threadBen Tasker5d ago
@steve @neil @prism My littlun was taught about DuckDuckGo at school - I've no way to know whether that's one teacher or the norm, but it does give me a little bit of hope for the future (the catch being, people of littluns age have to get to adulthood before that information is invalidated)
Show threaditgrrl 5d ago

@steve FWIW, until she’s ready to ditch Google 🤞 at some point, you can set up a “custom search engine” in her browser that invokes the param to show the web view for results rather than the view with the “AI” (🙄) summary – see my linked toot 👇

https://infosec.exchange/@itgrrl/114495075173286748

it may have the unfortunate side-effect of delaying her abandonment (or possibly open her eyes to other possibilities), but it will at least somewhat dis-enshittify her use of Google in the meantime

itgrrl :donor: (@[email protected])

@paco @[email protected] @[email protected] a little OT but FWIW the magic search URL param to prevent the AI slop summary showing on the Google search result page is (currently) &udm=14 - it corresponds to “show me the web view instead of the default view” you can add that param to your custom “search engine(s)” defined in your browser settings & use a keyboard shortcut to invoke a slop-free^ search from the omnibox 💁‍♀️       ^ well, “slop-reduced” - you still get the slop in the actual search results 😕 #udm14

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