Hiyato
AnarchoNinaWritesThere is some shitlib in my replies positing that a mandatory draft is both "good for kids" and also "antifascism."
Come get your mans before I choke the life out of him through sheer force of will.
HairyPotter@AnarchoNinaWrites good for getting officers shot and national resentment.
The Great Llama 
@AnarchoNinaWrites
EDIT: Apparently I wasn't clear. This is NOT a defense of a draft. This IS NOT a defense of a draft. THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE OF A DRAFT!
I can see the argument that mandatory service (military or otherwise) is good for a nation, from the standpoint of molding citizens into being more productive, etc. If life were a strategy game, it would totally provide bonuses.
Except... life isn't a strategy game. If (huge IF) there is a purpose for nations it SHOULD be to serve its citizens, not the other way around.
Additional edit: please go reread the first paragraph.
@TheGreatLlama Brey, these people are greedbag monster nazis who merc fucking babies for oil companies and want to round up "the other" in camps. And you want to trust them with your teenagers in MANDATORY SERVICE?
Gimme a break. The idea is stupid. Sorry.
@AnarchoNinaWrites
Exactly what I was saying. It "works" in a fantasy. Not defending it at all.
Exactly what I was saying. It "works" in a fantasy. Not defending it at all.
Zillion@AnarchoNinaWrites @TheGreatLlama Every single (well, almost every single) kid subject to a draft will oppose every single war, as will their parents. Some of those who get drafted and survive war will come back opposed to the government that drafted them and with the knowledge, ability, and desperation to fight it. Accelerationism makes me nauseous, but so do antibiotics.
@zillion lol, go away. Please do not appear in my replies again.
@zillion @AnarchoNinaWrites
If only we had a generation of people who are demographically supportive of the current fascist regime that ALSO went through a war with a draft to test this theory. Incidentally, I've never looked at a history book that covered the years before 1980.
If only we had a generation of people who are demographically supportive of the current fascist regime that ALSO went through a war with a draft to test this theory. Incidentally, I've never looked at a history book that covered the years before 1980.
JJ Litke@zillion No, they fucking won't. Many, even most, will be desperate to believe they didn't do it for nothing. Like a sunk-cost fallacy.
AnthonyJK-AdminReally???
People with common sense shouldn't need a compulsory draft to oppose wars. The time to do so is BEFORE the draft cards come out.
Also, you forget that a big part of war is motivating the troops to support it through propaganda & accepting violence by demonizing whomever the enemy happens to be as "inhuman" & worthy of elimination. Fighting wars can make people pro-war and racist, given the right(-wing) justification.
Antiwar includes antimilitarization.
@AnthonyJK @TheGreatLlama Of course people with common sense shouldn't need a compulsory draft to oppose wars. If only! A lot of opposition to the Vietnam War arose from the draft, and a lot of the Civil-Rights Movement was organized and supported by vets. There's a reason the draft was abolished, and it was not a good one.
I certainly don't support a draft, hence my comment on accelerationism.
I certainly don't support a draft, hence my comment on accelerationism.
rakoo@TheGreatLlama
@AnarchoNinaWrites
I think the key point to understand is that mandatory service is good for a *state*. The bourgeoisie has molded us for so long that we keep thinking a state and a nation are the same, but that is a fiction that must absolutely be dismantled. Nations, if they exist, can organize however they want; a state is only one way and there are others, merrier, better ways.
States have a purpose, and it is to dominate the population. Being antifascist needs understanding the distinction and knowing who the enemy is (State, and others actors, but the state is central) so we can know what is good or not for the people. In this case, a mandatory conscription is never good for the people.
(this doesn't mean that armed defense is bad; again, it can be good, but must take other forms than what we're used to)
@AnarchoNinaWrites
I think the key point to understand is that mandatory service is good for a *state*. The bourgeoisie has molded us for so long that we keep thinking a state and a nation are the same, but that is a fiction that must absolutely be dismantled. Nations, if they exist, can organize however they want; a state is only one way and there are others, merrier, better ways.
States have a purpose, and it is to dominate the population. Being antifascist needs understanding the distinction and knowing who the enemy is (State, and others actors, but the state is central) so we can know what is good or not for the people. In this case, a mandatory conscription is never good for the people.
(this doesn't mean that armed defense is bad; again, it can be good, but must take other forms than what we're used to)
@rakoo @AnarchoNinaWrites
You're slicing the language a little finer than I was, but semantics isn't really my bag. You're certainly being more precise, but I think we're making the same argument.
You're slicing the language a little finer than I was, but semantics isn't really my bag. You're certainly being more precise, but I think we're making the same argument.
HELL TO THE NO, IT IS NOT.
Compulsory military or domestic service is not needed for "building character", for "maintaining discipline", or even for "community service". We have far too much militarism in our society as it is. And that doesn't include Nina's point about giving warmongers like Trumpster & Vance, or Copmala, Buttigieg, Newsom, or any warhawk Democrat, free cannon fodder. Demilitarization, not equalizing or redistributing militarization, is the far better choice.
@AnthonyJK
Again...
I AM NOT DEFENDING DRAFTS.
What I was saying is that I can see why people doing a surface level analysis of the idea find it appealing. Because they aren't looking at how it affects actual humans.
Duly acknowledged. And, my fire was aimed more at the fool defending drafts as inducing opposition to war, not so much to you. Sorry for the stray brushback.
@AnthonyJK
Gotcha. After Nina jumped on me immediately for my initial post, I was afraid my edit still hadn't made it clear.
I'm from a rural area and in the age group where everyone's dad was a Vietnam vet. I spent my whole life watching people suffer from PTSD, so no... I'm not a fan of selective service.
tlariv@AnarchoNinaWrites
Nah. Have at 'em
Nah. Have at 'em
jiub 
@AnarchoNinaWrites yeah you just need to look at the IOF to see how false this is lmao
if anything mandatory service in israel just radicalizes people
a former friend of mine in the US moved to israel after i lost touch. he joined the IOF and i don't know what he did there but he was posting some awful israeli propaganda on facebook so it was clear he was radicalized. this was well before oct 7
and conscription hasn't stopped the rise of far-right politics in the handful of european countries that still have near universal conscription
if anything mandatory service in israel just radicalizes people
a former friend of mine in the US moved to israel after i lost touch. he joined the IOF and i don't know what he did there but he was posting some awful israeli propaganda on facebook so it was clear he was radicalized. this was well before oct 7
and conscription hasn't stopped the rise of far-right politics in the handful of european countries that still have near universal conscription
Jacqueline@jiub @AnarchoNinaWrites it incentivizes the public education system to teach kids racist propaganda in schools so that they are willing to die for the government.
@AnarchoNinaWrites and also i find it asinine for our shit ass countries to expect more and more from us while they're giving us less and less. they can't even give us jobs that pay for our costs of living ffs
@jiub Mandatory anything is fascism. These fuckers already steal everything they can take - don't give them your teens too.
@AnarchoNinaWrites agreed
they think you owe the government everything just for being born here, while the government owes you nothing in return
they think you owe the government everything just for being born here, while the government owes you nothing in return
Dirk Ritter[ spills the tea ]
😂 🤣 😂 🤣
ROTFLBTC
Surely there's nothing like “Anarcho-Syndicalist“ that screams harder “Please order me about and make me submit to fascist, authoritarian structures of power in order to commit war crimes on behalf of a fascist dictator and the oligarchy backing him!“.
Marvellous! 🍿🥳
Mungus@AnarchoNinaWrites getting robbed will make me richer because i will learn how bad getting robbed is
Corvid CroneThat response you got was wild
Azuaron@AnarchoNinaWrites Ah, yes, nothing like a little slave soldiering to advance antifascism.
@Azuaron And libs wonder why we don't think of them as allies and comrades right?
@AnarchoNinaWrites Do libs wonder that? Because it seems like libs only every treat us as enemies worse than fascists.
@Azuaron Well, they wonder it when we're kicking them out of our spaces. Loudly... but maybe they don't really think that and it's just another part of their very performative politics. I couldn't say really.
Purrbiscat@AnarchoNinaWrites As history has shown repeatedly, when a civilization gets to conscripts and mercenaries, they are in the hard spiral downwards.