i feel so validated in that when someone first pointed me to "create-react-app" (several someones actually) like it's a normal way to do frontend dev in the year 201X/202Y i ran it, concluded the output was dogshit, got into a minor fight over it and then never touched it again

turns out it is in fact dogshit, professionals agree!

i was porting a c++ app to the web and the node_modules folder alone had more files and more bytes than the entire c++ part. by more than an order of magnitude, if i recall

i'm not a javascript hater (i think modern JS and TS are pretty good all things considered!) and i'm not even a react hater (i maintain two react apps! not apps-pretending-to-be-websites, actual applications); i am however definitely a create-react-app hater. i cannot imagine why you would actually want this abomination

@whitequark it's such a mess. React's got some good ideas but god the ecosystem makes me want to claw my eyes out. At least some alternatives are a little more sane, but the sheer *volume* of the React ecosystem overshadows everything.

@stargirl @whitequark my read on react and its forebears has always been "this is for serving ads from a highly dynamic bidding system, and all other functionality is incidental" and I feel that I have never been poorly served by adopting this perspective

which is not to say that MVC is not useful, or that it's not a good implementation of MVC, but,,,

@SnoopJ @stargirl @whitequark at its core react is a tiny library that solves one problem: procedural manipulation of ui state leads to hard to find bugs, and it solves that with the sledgehammer of "render is a function of current state".

there's lots of arguments to be made about the tradeoffs of that solution, but it's not an unreasonable one if you have had to fix ui state problems in your life with a different paradigm