Mastodawn

@dalfen it's not entirely false (about end of times). The Iranian Islamic revolution saw Khomeini (first Supreme leader) as first of 3 harbingers to bring end of times (the other two were to be from sham/syria [i.e. hizbullah] and Yemen [I.e. houthis]). The religious theory outlines say to bring destruction to #mecca in Saudi, where then Muslims will have to March under the banner of #AlMahdi into #jerusalem to pray in #alaqsamosque. Doesn't have to be via nukes though.

@hszakher Very interesting. I know *some* about those beliefs, but not a whole lot. However, the way the person on CNN was pushing the narrative seemed false because he emphasized the nukes (perhaps trying to sway the American public ?), which contradicted what I had read about the fatwa. I wonder if now those in power in Iran might be more likely to pursue nukes, though, since that supreme leader, Khamenei, has passed.

/1 of 2... cont.

(also- it seems we might spell that name differently?)

@hszakher I have also read that there are factions of other religions like Christianity that are seeing the current situation in Iran and the greater Middle East in an apocalyptic end-times manner according to their beliefs. They might even be trying to push a religious narrative for the current war.

What are your thoughts on this?

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@dalfen you have 3 powerful countries (US, Israel, Iran) with leaders and big chunk (majority?) of population do believe they are fighting to bring in end of times. everybody's saviour (i.e. 1st or 2nd coming of Messiah) is the other side's villain (Al Dajjal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Masih_ad-Dajjal). I do believe (personally) that you cannot force God's hands into moving history. I also personally believe that what's happening maybe fulfilling biblical prophecies, but not the prophecies each side claims 😅 1/

Al-Masih ad-Dajjal - Wikipedia

@hszakher Oh that's interesting. Thank you for sharing the link.

I don't believe people can force God's hands either. It's not logical if God is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. and the creator of all things living and otherwise. Why would a god like that need human help?
~~

That said, psychologically, it is interesting how all three are trying to push events the way they believe that they will turn out. Ultimately, it could be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy that causes destruction.

@dalfen the focus of "end times" may distract from other "natural" laws, such as "you reap what you sow", "no peace through war", and "you cannot accumulate debt into prosperity & abundance". I personally don't have a problem with someone quoting biblical prophecies to "predict" the future. I have a problem with selective quoting. you know, the type that brushes out the "bad" consequences of one's actions, while claiming peace and prosperity over the dead bloody bodies of people.

@hszakher There is a whole lot of that, unfortunately 😕

And interestingly, those natural laws that you quoted... I see Trump being against all of them.
1) "Reap what you sow" - there seems to be no consequences for his actions right now
2) "No peace through war" - one motto of the Trump admin is "peace through strength" and they are calling the Dept. of Defense the Dept. of War
3) "Cannot accumulate debt into prosperity/abundance" - He has said he loves debt and is the king of debt.

/1 of 2

@dalfen yes, but the consequences don't have to come immediately after the action. Again, you plant the seeds in spring, and the harvest is end of summer. In between, everything looks the same. If no good deed goes unpunished, how much more bad deeds will 😀

@hszakher True. It seems that the consequences of one's actions will eventually be evident, whether good or bad. I guess the question is how long the process takes, though we may not need to know that. Rather, we should trust it as an inevitability.

@dalfen exactly, that's what I try to live by. Call it faith, or a coping mechanism to maintain my sanity. Either way, one should "know" that their own actions will have consequences that said one will have to pay for when time comes.

@hszakher I think one of the biggest indications of "insanity," so to speak, or at least emotional or spiritual immaturity, is the inability to recognize that one's actions have consequences.

I see "faith" as believing in what can't necessarily be seen, which is fantastic to help people cope with the world's craziness 🙂

Hänzi Pōtter

@dalfen totally agree. speaking of #apocalyse , there's one verse that magically not recited or mentioned whenever end times is discussed. Rev 20:12 "...And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books [of their deeds] were opened... and the dead **were judged**... according to their deeds". so people keep focusing on flying dragons and seven-headed beast, and discard a simple fact(?) of being **condemned** according to what they've done https://biblehub.com/greek/2919.htm

Strong's Greek: 2919. κρίνω (krinó) -- To judge, to decide, to determine

ˈdälfən™🐬 💥 🌊18h ago

@hszakher True. I don't think that people think much about that.
Plus, the way I've always understood it is those who are judged at that point are the people who did not make the first "cut," so to speak, based on their testimony about Christ and their refusal to worship the beast. Evangelical Christians I have known believe this first "cut" is the rapture. At that point, the "second death has no power over them" and they become "priests of God and of Christ."
Rev 20:4-6

Hänzi Pōtter 18h ago

@dalfen oh, don't get me started on the first cut(=rapture) 🙈 Rev. 13:7 indicates that (the "beast" ... was permitted to wage war against the saints [believers] and to conquer them...). that's the first cut. there's really no way to square the circle of being BOTH [materially / militarily] victorious and [spiritually] righteous in this life, if this is end-times developments.

ˈdälfən™🐬 💥 🌊17h ago

@hszakher By the first "cut," I mean a judgment that REMOVES people from ever being judged again. They would have to go through those rough times and then come out having never worshipped the beast to make that first cut.

And true, there is no way to be both [materially/militarily] victorious & [spiritually] righteous in this life. That is why Christians believe they need Jesus. (And I am not referring to the prosperity-gospel type of Christians, which Trump's spiritual advisor is, btw).
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ˈdälfən™🐬 💥 🌊17h ago

@hszakher That might not be clear. Jesus in the Bible I've read was not concerned about Rome. He said to store up treasures in heaven (Matthew 6:19-21). So the focus was not on material wealth or military conquest. Also, the Christian belief (again, not prosperity gospel) is that there is no way to be righteous enough for a perfect god. That is why people need Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice for people's sins.

There are many different "Christians." Some use scripture for their own gain.
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Hänzi Pōtter 17h ago

@dalfen I totally agree with you 💪 ... let the one who hears say, “Come!”