Mastodawn

KDE 1d ago

For those questioning the use of systemd in KDE Linux, it's fine. It is a fine framework on which we can build a distro, and the systemd folks are quick to correct errors.

Those pesky bugs? Well, these things happen. It's just unfortunate that two colliding bugs happened at the same time. That is why we have alpha, beta, and release candidates before we are confident enough to release a production version.

b9AcE

@kde No, it's not fine.
It's the worst thing to happen to Linux and any Open Source since as long as I have used Linux. 1994. It violates everything that built it to become as excellent as it was, now being piece by piece wrecked by this complete violation of the UNIX Philosophy. This slow infection killing user choice and compatibility just because a few developer elite refuse listening to the users is to be expected from GNOME, it's whar they are, but not you.
Letting it be A choice among many is as it should be but there is no valid reason for any DE to care how its DM was started, nor the DM to depend on any particular init, just as no distro not built for single use single task should be limited to only 1 PID1, only 1 shell, only 1 browser, only 1 App Store, as if it was an authoritarian iPhone. This is just objectively wrong, making it not just drastically more difficult to learn and to troubleshoot but also harmful and active creation of multiple times widely demonstrated single point of failure, abuse-enabling dominance which for certain if you let it advance to effective monopoly status will also let it become a tool for imposing political oppression with the worst possible consequences entirely probable.
It's not fine.

RE: https://todon.eu/@b9AcE/116351455990841473

@b9AcE @kde

"there is no valid reason for any DE to care how its DM was started, nor the DM to depend on any particular init, just as no distro not built for single use single task should be limited to only 1 PID1, only 1 shell, only 1 browser, only 1 App Store"

But none of that is happening, is it? You have plenty of DMs, inits, shells, browsers and app stores to choose from, right?

@Bro666 All of that is, as I wrote, slowly infecting everything, little step like this by little step, all the time everywhere, until one by one other projects declare they just can not maintain support for thr other choices because the dominant have decided to go from once an option to then the default, then prioritized and finally become exclusionary non-interoperable, so the smaller projects cease being able to handle the extra work of reverting the biggest mistake made within Open Source and so forced to end user-choice too, or end altogether.
Yes, that is exactly what is happening, exactly the same way as it did the other times, by slow infection corrupting, as I wrote.
@kde

@b9AcE @kde

It does not logically follow that a successful option will eliminate all others. That is what corporate monopolies try to do, but not even they are always successful. If they were, we would not have Linux, BSDs, Haikus today.

And systemd is not developed by an evil, monopoly-seeking corporation, it is Free Software distributed under an LGPL license, and can be modified by thris parties and forked any time.

Your screed comes over as tribalism, if you don't mind me saying, based on nothing more than FUD. Instead of hating on the option you don't like, wouldn't it be more productive to support the system you do? I mean, if you fear "your" option may one day disappear, this is not the way to help it.

@Bro666 If you try actually reading the words that I actually wrote instead of words that you imagine unto me but not mine, as well as now also actions decreed by you as if mine without any foundation, you will find your answers already in the previous posts.
Thank you for reading thoroughly instead of starting a flamewar for lack of own effort.

@b9AcE

Okay. Why don't you illustrate what you mean with an example? Please cite an example where "[a FLOSS] project [has] declared they cannot maintain support for other choices because the dominant have decided to go from once an option to the default, then prioritized and finally become exclusionary non-interoperable, so the smaller projects cease being able to handle the extra work".

(Your description of the chain of events is a bit garbled, but I hope I have understood correctly the gist).

@Bro666 Your reading comprehension can be "a bit garbled". I am not inclined to be your research assistant after the preceding aggression, so as an outcome you must do your own research.
Goodbye.

@b9AcE

You are the one claiming that systemd is "infecting" FLOSS and threatening to kill all other options, hence the onus of proving that is on you.

@Bro666 Nope. I have no obligation to you whatsoever. I didn't speak to you. You spoke to me. All obligations are on you.

bitterseeds 20h ago

@b9AcE @Bro666 people who throw grenades into public threads and then get their panties in a bunch are just the worst. You comment publicity then it’s on you to defend said assertions. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Gianmarco Gargiulo 1d ago

@b9AcE @kde

wrobertson 1d ago

@b9AcE
But...KDE doesn't require systemd at all. In this very thread @kde points out that you can run KDE on non-systemd systems, or even non-Linux systems with no issues (I have a FreeBSD one, it works great). So...I guess I don't see what all the fuss is about? Choose a different distro and install the KDE package.

@wrobertson I was trying to be very clear in describing that it is not the DE I was writing about, just as they were clear. I wrote about both general prinicple and about specifically distros. I even listed examples for that effect.

wrobertson 1d ago

@b9AcE
You were not clear. You mentioned DE/DM first, then mentioned distros in an appositive phrase. Then you went off about several other arguably unrelated topics. That's why you're getting the responses you're getting. Have a nice Sunday

@wrobertson Yes, it is true that I assumed that people would read an entire sentence to its end, not just fragments of it. If some people choose to read parts of, but not entire, sentences that is not the writer's choice nor responsibility.
No amount of clarity can counter partial reading, similar to how even the best road construction can not be blamed for if a car driver crashes for trying to drive the car on that road while only partially in the car.
I wish you the same!