Sovereign of the Last SunriseThe best apology is changed behaviour.
Kick Murder Squad Pleasurebot@Dawn it took me an unfortunately long about of time to really understand that “I’m sorry” followed but the same behavior, repeated over and over, is called “manipulation.”
@FinalGirl these are the magic words to make whatever it is go away for a while, to make them feel better about being shitty people.
Em@FinalGirl @Dawn um... not really to be honest. people can have difficulties to change behavior for a myriad of reasons, not all are evil or "manipulative in nature and intent.
Zoarial94 
@Em @FinalGirl @Dawn sure, but we're talking pretty vauge here. If you repeatedly perform an action that harms someone and only ever say "sorry", I would say it's manipulative.
If you harm someone once, but come to an understanding so that same action no longer harms that someone, then your point stands.
I have certainly harmed people without ill intent, but that was because I only focused on what I had to gain. So I would say sorry and end up making the same mistake again. It's taken me a long time to even see the cycle let alone try to break it.
@Zoarial94 @FinalGirl @Dawn this is not what I was talking about. It doesn't matter whether someone else is hurt, if you are regretting it, it stands on its own and can not seen as manipulativeif the intention is not to manipulate. How could it be?
@Em I disagree. I also find it difficult to believe this question is in good faith. Assuming someone let you know they don't like the action you're taking, regret is not enough to make up for it. You have to change your behavior by adjusting or stopping taking that action.
It would become manipulation when you repeat the action because you want to appear as though you're improving yourself while not actually changing anything. You want to feel better about the action you took by saying sorry, but nothing actually changes.
@Zoarial94 *sigh*, you are not reading what I am writing are you?
You just read wht you want to read and then base your whole "argument" on that.
@Zoarial94 we are talking about whether something is manipulative, but how can something be manipulative if there is no intention to manipulate? You seem to believe that this is not possible. That every case of not making up for it in a VERY specific way is manipulative and thus intentional.
Flash Mob Of One@FinalGirl @Dawn I have a two strike policy. I will always forgive the first time and take someone's apology, but never a second.
And I don't begrudge people who refuse to forgive my fuckups.