BewilderedKat 

Hypothetical Scenario: You are going about your day and you come across someone basically naked, covered in mud, looking a bit frightened and seemingly, well *you*

They would be acting like how you might act if you came-to covered in nothing but mud and watching a (probably) clothed version of you cautiously approaching.

They have some memory loss and can't remember much from say, the past few weeks, but everything else is there.

What would you do? Like actually envision this happening, look at yourself in the mirror if you have to.

Assuming you help get them cleaned up, clothed, fed, etc. What do you think that situation will feel like? Would you be asking about memories to get a feel for how those line up? What if they remember more things than you?

How will this situation proceed? And what does your reaction tell you about who you are as a person? How does your reaction from the other perspective tell you about yourself?

What are some of the differences in how you wish it might go vs how it would be most likely to go?

I'm hoping for a sincere #Discussion and welcome anyone to reply   

#WhatIf #Imitosis #SelfReflection #MusingsOfAKat #KatQs

1:54amWeb
Show threadKK Jade 💜14h ago

@h3mmy they would have the same curiosity I have, so I'm sure we'd be able to talk through everything and figure out if we're (effectively) the same person.

From there, gosh, I mean the logistics are a huge headache. Healthcare, food, relationships, etc etc. I imagine my clone would want to be their own person, right?

Do we risk going to *generic science* to try to figure stuff out? Is it a situation where there's some crazy secret cloning project and we'll be killed for going public? Etc

Show threadBewilderedKat 14h ago

@cd_kk
There's definitely a whole identity crisis to manage. First the acute phase of how to handle the reality of the situation. This would ideally end with accepting that the entity is sufficiently similar (not a low standard by any means). And I had to simulate it from both perspectives to get a better idea of how it might go for me.

Then, the logistics... One of my big things when I was initially thinking it through was healthcare. My meds are expensive even with insurance. What sort of "crime" would I need to get up to simply to have an equivalent supply of medication?

The hypothetical scenario is based on a mini-series with a similar but ultimately different premise. But to borrow an element from it, the "other" version may lack some of the health issues. This sent me down a wildly different sidequest of self-reflection.

Anyway, you mentioned that your clone would want to be their own person. What does that mean exactly? They're autonomous already, but they have the same self-identity as you

Show threadKK Jade 💜14h ago

@h3mmy my read is that one benefit of this scenario is that it's reasonable to assume that I'd still be the "original" (if that's applicable), at least until we had some info about how this happened. Though I know that'd be hard for the other entity to accept 😬

The other entity not having some health issues is a tricksy prospect, especially thinking about mental health - am I still "me" without them? Would the "other" one be an upgraded version of me, in a way?

Show threadBewilderedKat 12h ago

@cd_kk
That's an interesting thought. If you had the experience of waking up in a weird place covered in mud and a "you" looking entity found you, would you be thinking of it the same way?

I know several people IRL that assumed they were the original, but also felt like they were the original when in the flipped scenario.

It's totally valid to feel that way! I just think it's interesting.

You're definitely asking good questions around identity and disability. I had a lot of reflection to do on the matter. I was mainly concerned about how it might slowly cause me to get shifted out of my social bonds and then realizing I have some significant insecurities to work through; particularly arout how my friends perceive me based on how they interact with me.

Show threadKK Jade 💜1h ago

@h3mmy I'd be incredibly confused for a while, but I believe that once we realized I (the muddy one) was missing a chunk of memories, that'd be a marker that I wasn't the original. Whether or not I'd accept that is another question😅

What do you mean by getting shifted out of your social bonds? Being replaced by the other, having to share friends with the other, living as 1 identity and having to "debrief" the other and only experiencing half a friendship? Something along those lines?

Show threadKK Jade 💜14h ago
@h3mmy
Honestly, the Star Trek TNG "Thomas Riker" situation is what I'm thinking. I don't believe I'd be content "sharing" my life with someone, plus all the logistical issues... Having two physical entities living one life/sharing one identity feels pretty much impossible. I don't know how it'd work exactly, but one of us would have to take on a new identity and try to forge their own way in the world. Much easier said than done, though, and that likely means saying goodbye to many loved ones.
Show threadMedea Vanamonde 🏳️‍⚧️13h ago
@cd_kk @h3mmy
You are not factoring in time travel duplication (mud you is future you) or probability shadow of yourself either from a nearby history or a history so far off your main that they still look like you but …
Show threadKK Jade 💜1h ago
@MedeaVanamonde that is true! And in those scenarios the question becomes: "can we get you back to where you're supposed to be?" (assuming they want that).
Show threadrecursive 🏳️‍🌈14h ago
@h3mmy It it implied that I would recognize this person as basically a copy of me, or is part of the scenario whether or not I would?
Show threadBewilderedKat 14h ago

@recursive
I feel that part of the scenario is definitely whether or not you would.

What actions would you take upon encountering this individual? Would you invite them into your home to help get them cleaned up? How would you decide that they are you? Is it enough to be convinced that they are you and share most of your memories? Etc.

Show threadrecursive 🏳️‍🌈14h ago

@h3mmy Yeah. This is really leading me to think about some uncomfortable moral questions of how I approach care for others vs maintaining resources and safety for myself

I think I was taught a lot of ambitious moral principles growing up, and yet in the realities of our present society, it's hard to live up to many of those principles without great self-sacrifice, and thus I find it challenging to *appropriately* extend help to others under the system of morality I was taught

This really connects with a lot of the kind of "discernment" I think I've been learning while doing therapy the past few years -- How do I *choose* correct action as a mature adult instead of merely engaging in a simplistic set of childish feelings of "I should"?

A lot of my own care of myself vis-a-vis neurodivergence and trauma has been bootstrapped by asserting that it is axiomatic that I am worthy of that care from myself, it is a useful belief

I would like to give that kind of care to anyone. But it's not easy to do in a society that's so against it that often doing so may detract from the care of oneself. I think that someone who is a clone of me would be pretty nifty and I would be more *interested* in them, but what part of my resources in life deserve to be allocated to those who I find interesting vs people in general?

(This isn't even getting to the problem of "we treat people as 'safe' based on some pretty shoddy similarity heuristics")

Show threadOof(yes really)13h ago
@h3mmy difficult to answer because our internal state and who is fronting at the time matter a very large amount. we can say that based on past experiences we would do our best to care for them either directly or by getting others involved. on the conversation side of things, the question would be if they wanted to talk or have us ask questions, in general we have a blanket policy of not asking questions and accepting what folks offer to share (we learned this doesn't work on first dates 😬).
Show threadOof(yes really)11h ago
@h3mmy thinking about it more it definitely leads to "what if I could fuck my headmates" with a side of "and they don't remember all that trauma" questions
Show threadThat’s a moray12h ago
@h3mmy I would leave, assume I had invented the whole thing, and go to work as usual.
Show threadAutumn Meadow11h ago

@h3mmy
Quite a fascinating thought experiment. I have no doubt my initial instinct would be that I must be hallucinating. Once I realized it wasn't a hallucination, my next thought would be "New headmate unlocked!" Then I would realize I rarely see them in photo realistic imagery and never overlaid atop meatspace, so then my next thought probably would be time travel of some kind.

I have no doubt we would compare childhood trauma as proof of identification. Wouldn't take long to accept we are the same person.

If they remember more things, I'd wonder if they were from my future or my past. With my memory issues and rapid improvement in recent years, it's entirely possible they could be from my future. I've aged a great deal the last couple of years, though, so it probably would be easy to tell if they are younger.

I think at this point I'd want to know how they got to my point in spacetime? I'd be fascinated with the time travel aspect, assuming that's what's up. If it's a multiverse situation, I may be hesitant to help them. An evil me? Incredibly dangerous. I want nothing to do with that.

But let's say we establish they're not a threat to me nor I them. If they're from my future, I would want to know if things ever get better. Given how I met them, probably not, but I'd want to know. I'm defiant to a fault. Knowing things will get bad might just help me prevent that particular future.

At the very least, I'd know why I ended up back in this hellhole covered in mud the second time around.

Oh gods... I'm supposed to save the world, aren't I? We are so fucked.