Dave RahardjaMar 29

One thing that continues to grate on my conscience about #AI is how artists and writers consistently feel that the technology has STOLEN from them. We all know that web scraping is (and should be) a perfectly legal and acceptable use, because preventing it also prevents all sorts of beneficial behaviors—the Internet Archive wouldn’t be able to exist, for one thing.

But yet, the very nature of AI takes scraped content and regurgitates it as a pink-slime extrusion that it feeds back into the web. And to creators, that just FEELS WRONG; it feels like stolen valor, it feels like exploitation.

And it’s something I can’t (and shouldn’t) shake from my mind each time I see something made by AI. Just because something is LEGAL doesn’t mean it isn’t ABUSIVE and UNETHICAL. Scolding people who complain about AI by telling them that web scraping is good, actually, doesn’t address the main complaint: that somehow, these AI assholes have EXPLOITED A COMMON GOOD and we can’t quite figure out how to stop it.

Show threadDave Rahardja

Many people I know have taken to large-scale AI-assisted coding with no qualms, because the tech can be useful in many cases, especially when the users are already software experts. But just because a technology is USEFUL doesn’t mean it is ETHICAL to use, and it’s impossible to see AI output without also seeing the masses of creators whose works have been scraped, many of whom feel like they’ve been used and exploited.

If ever there was a time to resist this technology, it’s now. We are at an inflection point, and we can either jump in headlong and profit from AI as it stands today, or we can help put the brakes on, slow things down, and take the time to work out how (or IF it’s possible) to use this technology ethically.

Listen to the creators. They almost universally feel exploited by AI. Try to figure out why that is, and why our norms don’t account for that.

Mar 29 at 8:41amWeb
Show threadDave RahardjaMar 29

One discussion I’d like to have is how ethically-motivated software engineers and managers, both junior and senior, can put the brakes on at their workplace. Many corporations are implementing top-down mandates to use coding assistant models during development. However, many are now at some “pilot” stage and are therefore somewhat receptive (vulnerable) to pushback from the ranks. What are some strategies that employees have to make ethical problems more salient to the discussion?

In many cases, “refuse to use it” is not an option—or at least it’s likely perceived as a career-limiting option—because of said top-down mandate. Senior staff can choose this path, but junior ones will find it very risky unless there is community support.

Show threadJohnMar 29

@drahardja

Many in the West suffer from "everything is like everything else" syndrome, where the Internet Archive's obviously benevolent and beneficial use of scraping is *precisely the same* as planet-destroying garbage-peddling LLM grifters' scraping of the internet.

This is exactly the same phenomenon that leads people to say that extremist Leftist and extremist Fascists are "the same"; it doesn't matter that one wants the to have free healthcare and housing and food and the other wants...

Show threadJohnMar 29

@drahardja

...to murder all trans people, Black people, immigrants, queer people and leftists while implementing a tyrannical government while stealing literally everything from everyone else.

Under this bizarre Duality fallacy we've all been acculturated to, the "two sides" have to be "the same", because symmetry amirite? And that's the extent of the argument lol lmao

Like, as I have to say almost every day: not everything is the same as everything else. FFS.

Show threadJohnMar 29

@drahardja

Another great example is when artists create something inspired by other artists or that quotes or references other artists.

This is *not the same* as a voracious, unethical, and monstrous technology regurgitating an artists work slightly changed, without discourse or critique.

Like, transparently not the same.

And yet - it's LLM-pilled fuckfaces fav argument.

Show threadRyan Boswell 🏳️‍🌈Mar 29

@drahardja I’ve been living this particular scenario for a while now. I’m a manager of a team with varied seniority, and with a 9 year tenure at my employer, a fairly visible and recognized colleague.

I focus on being a visible critic of the tools and an example you can still do your job and do it well without them. I’ve told my team that I won’t require them, and while I won’t stop them from using LLMs, I obviously won’t assist them actively. And I seek out others with similar positions and collaborate with them on how to challenge the adoption.

And I take every chance I have to ask critical but real questions to leadership about their intentions, and strategy. I honestly have found very little success in an ethics focused approach, the pushback I get is “ethics are not a factor in our fiduciary responsibility to stakeholders, earning more profit is and LLMs help that.” That saddens me, but is likely the standard for any company leadership that is already adopting LLMs at any level.

Show threadPeter BrettMar 29
@drahardja I have simply been pointing out that it doesn't help with anything that's actually a bottleneck. Our problem is never that we can't produce code fast enough -- we need to do more *engineering*, not programming, to solve customer issues, and engineering is an intrinsically social activity.
Show threadTiota SramMar 29

@drahardja the correct answer to this is: unionize.

It's not an easy fix, but it's easier than any of the alternatives I can think of.

It's made especially tricky by the fact that you need to build an anti-AI consensus among the workers, which I imagine isn't always readily available.

Show threadDave RahardjaMar 29
@tiotasram While I’m a supporter of unions, I don’t think it should be a prerequisite. And neither should being anti-AI be a prerequisite for joining a union.
Show threadnihilistic_capybaraMar 30

@drahardja you know how Edison was kind of abusive towards his employees and he stole ideas but his endevours resulted in stuff like AC electricity or the lightbulb being popularized?

In that situation what good would have not using lightbulbs or electricity done for the people being used by him?

We need legal reforms (mainly anti monopolistic). Good labor laws. We need more worker owned companies and we need a shift away from closed source software. Nothing else matters IMHO.

Show threadadminApr 7
@drahardja It's use AI to code or get fucked by the Jobcenter.
I chose AI