quantumloverTransgender women athletes banned from women’s Olympic events by new IOC policy
ZozanoI’m of two minds about this:
First, let people compete in comparative tier skill events. We have different weight classes for boxing, why should other sports be any different?
Second, who fucking cares? Sports are literally just physical games which have become the victim of capitalism, and the Olympics added nationalism and implicit racial perspectives.
You will never see a Japanese woman winning the 100m sprint. Should we have another category for Asian sprinters? Maybe? But at some point you need to realise:
NONE OF THIS SHIT MATTERS.
Most of these athletes are doing drugs anyway lol.
qevlarrIt matters exactly for the reason why it’s banned. Sports is a pretext for hurting trans people. Sex assigned at birth should not matter at all. The bigots know this, but it’s acceptable as long as it’s dressed up as an intellectually honest debate about fairness in sports. Fairness in sports is a fool’s errand, like you point out. Having that discussion at all is letting the bigots win.
Sex assigned at birth should not matter at all.
It shouldn’t, but it does. As a matter of what is statistically relevant about the dichotomy between males and females.
dandelionis that true, though? What I’ve read is that the science is showing the opposite, that sex is mostly plastic and that after a couple years on hormones, trans women have similar fitness and athletic ability as cis women:
bjsm.bmj.com/content/…/bjsports-2025-110239
While transgender women exhibited higher lean mass than cisgender women, their physical fitness was comparable.
transgender women’s VO₂ max, when adjusted for weight, aligns with cisgender women,4 further supporting parity in endurance capabilities
the absence of strength disparities between transgender women and cisgender women found in the current review was consistent and contradicts narratives framing male puberty as conferring irreversible athletic advantages despite [gender-affirming hormone therapy].
transgender women’s pretherapy advantages in push-ups and sit-ups disappeared after 2 years of feminising hormones among 46 individuals who started [gender-affirming hormone therapy] while in the US Air Force.
Body composition and physical fitness in transgender versus cisgender individuals: a systematic review with meta-analysis
Objective To compare body composition and physical fitness between transgender and cisgender individuals. Design Systematic review with meta-analysis. Data sources PubMed, Web of Science, Embase and SportDiscus. Eligibility criteria Inclusion criteria comprised studies of transgender individuals comparing body composition or physical fitness pre-to-post gender-affirming hormone therapy (GAHT) or versus cisgender controls. Results 52 studies (n=6485) were included. Transgender women had similar relative fat mass (standardised mean difference (SMD) −0.33, 95% CI −0.72 to 0.05, Grading of Recommendations Assessment, Development and Evaluation (GRADE): very low), relative lean mass (SMD 0.19, 95% CI −0.14 to 0.53, GRADE: low), upper-body strength (SMD 0.54, 95% CI −0.95 to 2.02, GRADE: very low), lower-body strength (SMD 0.05, 95% CI −1.31 to 1.40, GRADE: very low) and maximal oxygen consumption (SMD −0.28, 95% CI −0.81 to 0.25, GRADE: very low) in comparison to cisgender women. Transgender men exhibited higher relative fat mass (SMD 0.96, 95% CI 0.28 to 1.64, GRADE: moderate), lower relative lean mass (SMD −6.42, 95% CI −12.26 to −0.58, GRADE: moderate) and lower upper-body strength (SMD −1.46, 95% CI −2.52 to −0.40, GRADE: moderate) than cisgender men. In transgender women, GAHT was associated with increased fat mass and reduced lean mass and upper-body strength over 1–3 years. Transgender men demonstrated reduced fat mass and increased lean mass and strength following GAHT. Conclusion While transgender women exhibited higher lean mass than cisgender women, their physical fitness was comparable. Current evidence is mostly low certainty and has heterogenous quality but does not support theories of inherent athletic advantages for transgender women over cisgender. PROSPERO registration number CRD42024562210. Data are available upon reasonable request.
I’m going to plagiarise myself:
This systematic review aligns with previous ones in highlighting critical research limitations. This includes the typically short study durations (<3 years) and a lack of data on elite athletes.
So we aren’t talking about Olympic tier athletes.
Also, the authors themselves acknowledge the evidence quality sits between very low and low
For what it’s worth, I don’t give a shit about “fairness” in sports. What I am pushing back on is the insinuation that people are either malicious or manipulated if they don’t accept the assertion that trans women do not have a competitive advantage.
At best, it’s uncharitable, and at worst, it a litmus test.
Why are you demanding that someone proves no advantage exists? If you find the level of proof ambiguous, then the null hypothesis must be that no difference exists. That’s just basic respect for human rights and dignity.
Realize what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that trans women and girls be completely cut off from competitive sports in any form. Trans women are conclusively far below cis men in performance. We’re just squabbling over whether some minute advantage exists over cis women. Trans women can’t just go and play with the guys. You’re arguing for trans women to be completely excluded from any form of sports whatsoever, a complete expulsion from an entire realm of human culture and experience.
If you’re arguing for something so radical and cruel, the burden of proof is on you. The default assumption is equality. We don’t take away civil rights on a whim. If it can be scientifically shown, on a sport-by-sport basis, that trans women have some massive advantage over cis women? Fine. In that case I might support a handicap system, or if that were not possible, exclusion as a last resort. But the burden for proof for that should be high. You’re hurting real people here. Unless you can scientifically prove that some advantage exists, the default assumption must be that no advantage exists.
Why are you demanding that someone proves no advantage exists?
I’m not. I’m simply stating that there is a difference, it isn’t a matter of debate. It’s like saying Kenyans are better at sprinting than white people in general.
I believe that respecting trans people means being honest about the facts, and promoting equality. Both can be true.
You are suggesting that trans women and girls be completely cut off from competitive sports in any form.
You’re arguing for trans women to be completely excluded from any form of sports whatsoever
that trans women have some massive advantage over cis women
None of these are claims I’ve made.
You’re hurting real people here.
The only thing I’m hurting is the brains of the people who are jumping on the slippery slope, all the way to the strawman.