lenazunI completely understand the position of people who don't want to use LLMs or consume any content produced with LLMs. I do not understand the position of "NO ONE should use LLMs at all" because how are you planning to make that happen? no one should be *forced* to use them, but plenty of people are using them now. it's not something you can wish away or achieve via moral condemnation.
Anil Dash@lzg my issue is, even if you feel that way… what’s the plan? This is the stance that failed with social media, failed with ride sharing apps, failed with crypto. Even if critics were morally right to say “nobody should ever use this”, they didn’t succeed in harm reduction. And that has to matter more than smugly being “right” when the stakes are this high.
tony 🏳️⚧️ 🏴 🚴🧗🏻@autonomousapps @anildash of course, but that's also true of surveillance tech. it's a concern about labor, education, justice. it's not necessarily about LLMs. I am interested in that better world where we mitigate the harms of these tools existing, instead of trying to hate them out of existence.
@lzg @anildash I hate them *because* the entirety of the capitalist class is determined to force them on society unilaterally (in a manner of speaking) and undemocratically.
Contrary to your point, and leaving aside the minority on mastodon, most of my professional contacts are all-in on these things *despite* all the harms; in fact I think they're willfully ignorant of the harms, for the most part.
What's your theory of change vis-a-vis harm reduction? What should we be doing?
@autonomousapps @anildash I think first we should have better arguments, and that requires keeping up with the outdated or weak ones (stochastic parrots, dubious environmental numbers, copyright based claims). IMO this is necessary for proposing regulation that makes *some* kind of sense, including achieving some price to consumers more in line with the cost of use. Just generally I think would love to broaden this conversation to more extractive tech, not only LLMs.
Alyx Woodward (she/her)@lzg @autonomousapps @anildash "stochastic parrot" is an apt summary of how the devices work and thus a reminder that LLMs aren't actually intelligent. what's "outdated" about the phrase? or what about the phrase "doesn't work"?
and why on Earth would you be trusting to government regulations to address the problem at a time when fascist Republicans control the government and Democrats mostly collaborate with Republicans?.
@alyx_woodward @lzg @anildash since "stochastic parrots" keeps coming up, maybe it's worth checking in on one of the originators of the term (a scientist, not just some random Internet commentator!)
also ftr I believe the OG people in this thread at least are all operating in good faith, even though there are differences of opinion. there's no need for vitriol here
https://dair-community.social/@emilymbender/116304103647077081
Prof. Emily M. Bender(she/her) (@[email protected])
The first is a student who asked how to resist pressure to use "AI" without being a stick in the mud. I said: Be a stick in the mud! Help create the solid ground that others might stand on too. I shared this story with Sam Cole on the @[email protected] podcast, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwBZiuH-1QY