They did starve a lot of people to death and made a lot of people work to death as slaves, though. And I mean, like, a lot. Like the most people ever murdered by leaders, even including the Holocaust, though maybe not per capita?

capitalism has starved more people to death, I dont see people blaming capitalism for that however. I dont know where you get “made a lot of people work as slaves till death from tho”…

First of all, every nation is a capitalism, so technically yes.

Second, the USA in it’s 250 year history has never had a famine, much less ones on the scale caused by the USSR and Mao Zedong.

The communist dictatorships, as direct results of changes in policy and management, make up half the lists of famines total. If you have some secret data that proves tens of millions of people per year die in every democracy, please present it.

First of all there is no democracy in capitalist countries. Its dictatorship of capital.

You are calling famines under communist nations as man made and blaming it on certain leaders, however people starving in capitalism is natural? wfp.org/…/world-wealth-9-million-people-die-every…

Capitalism, as a direct result of its design and functioning (food grown by exploiting peasants and made for profit of the bourgeosie instead of feeding the hungry) make up way more death toll than all supposed communist famines in human history.

Thats why we waste tonnes of food every year despite millions of people dying of hunger. Is that fault of capitalism and capitalist leadership or not?

So to clarify, when you combined the stats from every nation on earth, you come up with less deaths than from singular famines in communist dictatorship and still call that about equal?

My point is, those “communist dictatorships” had no one die due to starvation after one famine and those countries had history of periodic famines that stopped under communism, theres nuance to everything. My point is simple, if people dying under communism is due to communism, apply same logic to capitalist democracy.

You mean state capitalist dictatorships. What most people call communism including Stalinists and MLs is actually just state capitalism and couldn’t be further away from communism.

No its not state capitalism. Go read marx. The basis of capitalism is surplus extraction which went to bourgeosie. In soviet union and other ML states surplus either went to the worker or the govt which then used it for public purposes (sure there was corruption). Many aspects of ML states werent communist but they were the closest weve gotten to socialism.

The surplus filled the pockets of party elites. Don’t fool yourself. ML states were barely even socialist to begin with. They were basically just state capitalist states with a thin layer of red coating. The party didn’t care about the worker. The party only cared about it’s own hold on power and loyalty of it’s subjects.

And I have read Marx and it is quite a huge leap from Marx to whatever MLs are trying to do.

Thats just a whole lot of oversimplification painting those who were in party leadership as having no ideology or empathy whatsoever. They did care about workers (best worker rights in history were in ML states).

Like fuck they did. MLs only ever cared about staying in power.

Thats your personal opinion and is devoid of logic and historical evidences. Good luck.