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Liberals are welcome here, but not your liberalism, check it at the door. Any defense of liberalism or the Democrats or any capitalist ideology will be removed. This community is first and foremost for socialists and communists.
“Fuck Yes” to socialist, communist, and anti-capitalist discourse.
It’s your comm to mod how you see fit. However, a lack of diversity in viewpoints results in an echo chamber and circle jerk. We don’t shift the Overton Window by dismissing valid criticisms and facts we don’t like.
We don’t shift the Overton Window by dismissing valid criticisms and facts we don’t like.
Except that is precisely how the Overton Window shifts.
The Overton Window is a range of socially acceptable facts, beliefs, criticisms, and opinions. Anything outside that range is socially unacceptable even if it’s valid.
The Overton Window isn’t about what criticisms and facts are valid. It’s about what criticisms and facts we are allowed to debate the validity of.
(For example, the internment of Japanese during World War II. It’s possible to debate the validity of that internment based on various historical facts. But no decent person would have that debate in the first place. It’s outside the Overton Window of decency. Which is why I expect Fox News to platform Michelle Malkin again shortly.)
The American media establishment has shifted the Overton Window in America, Europe, and Australia, further and further to the right over the last decades. They didn’t do it by considering all valid critiques. They did it by platforming and discussing right-wing critiques of society and the facts they were based on - even the invalid ones - and insisting left-wing critiques of society and the fact they were based on - even the valid ones - were unacceptable to discuss in public.
If we insist on giving right-wing ideas the same fair consideration we give left-wing ideas, we are accepting those right-wing ideas into our conception of what the Overton Window should be. And in the battle to control that window, we are disarming ourselves.
You raise very good points. And I appreciate your long form explanation; thank you for the context.
Absolutely fuck right-wing and Democrat “reasoning” and whataboutery here. I was more thinking about leftish of center, e.g. liberal, considerations and conversations in this comm. We’re never going to win over Conservatives (well, akshually, I’ve seen good progress in my geographical community*), but the people on the fence… those are the people for whom I think it is critical that we engage their viewpoints and show them a better way. I don’t think alienating potential allies and fostering an echo chamber advances our goals.
*Pummeling fence-sitters and Conservatives with our viewpoints has only been counterproductive in my experience. Flies, honey, carrot, stick, and all that. But really (and here’s where I agree with points you raised), I think it takes a wide array of approaches to get where we want to be. We’re not going to seize control of any narratives with a Lemmy echo chamber. I think LSC is a good platform for pointing out how Capitalism is killing all of us and the planet and would love to post and see more of that here.
We don’t need liberal viewpoints. We know what those viewpoints are and they all will defend the status quo over the needs of the working class everytime. Does the viewpoint of someone saying Nazis should have a voice hold any weight in your argument? Does the Republican viewpoint have a place? Or is it limited to your viewpoint and the liberal constant need to dominate the conversation?
Edit
Your picture is literally enlightened centrism. You support the abolishment of capitalism on rhetoric only
Your picture is literally enlightened centrism.
I would love for the Socialist ideal to be the center. So yeah, let’s keep building towards that together. Your rhetorical questions are a Straw Man fallacy. But the next time a Nazi raises a valid point (HAHAHAHAHA!), I will be sure to use that in refining my arguments and methods for moving my physical and social communities towards Socialism.
You support the abolishment of capitalism on rhetoric only
<sigh> And this is part of why we keep losing. Keep attacking allies and potential allies and see how far that gets you. I’m talking about winning hearts and minds to our cause, showing and convincing people there is a better way, while demonstrating how Capitalism is kill all of us. FWIW, I’m a founding member and board officer of my regional timebank, SPUSA member, and union shop steward. It that ain’t anti-Capitalist enough for you, well, good luck. I’m gonna continue on my path building rather than trying to tear others down.
Not with that attitude. Serious question: how many people do you convince to take up our causes with talk like that?
Liberals are NOT allies.
And hence why I also said “potential allies.”
In my experience, talking to fence-sitters like that is counterproductive, to the point where your demeanor here feels like a psyop to undermine the stated goals. If you have means for using that language and messaging in effectively changing minds, I think we could all benefit from your wisdom.
GodlessCommie
JayleneSlide