sekomi: overseer and protector of yuriJan 21
> "free" bsd
> look inside
> jail
Show threadティージェーグレェ1d ago
Indeed!

I think it's telling that OS X/macOS are FreeBSD derived, yet decided not to borrow the jails subsystem.

Word choice is important.

Some of PHK's other perspectives when it comes to things related to carceral constructs are extremely harrowing to read.

But, it's one thing to be outspoken about things.

It's another, when down stream maintainers, decide to go through the hassle of making sure they do not take your bad code and ideas along with them. Speaks volumes, without saying a word! Indeed, by removing lines of code!

Good hacking. ^_^
Show threadLisPi10h ago
@teajaygrey @sekomi > decide to go through the hassle of making sure they do not take your bad code and ideas along with them

Are they actually ineffective though? Why not just search & replace (if the code actually is good)?
Show threadティージェーグレェ10h ago
I think the conjecture in this instance is: jails are not good.

Word choice matters.

Maybe, if PHK had called it chroot++? He did not.
Show threadLisPi10h ago
@teajaygrey That seems like a silly reason to discard it entirely rather than see what can be salvaged.

Cop cars are a good source of fuel to pump, even if it was previously used by cops. (For legal reasons this is a joke.)
Show threadティージェーグレェ9h ago
Your sense of humor is kind of lost on me, since I think petrofossil fuels are also a dead end. Moreover, I didn't realize I was in a comedy club, and having to explicitly declare jokes, typically ruins them.

If you are trying to make light of a subject involving incarceration? Might I suggest: you stop doing that.
Show threadLisPi
@teajaygrey No, I truly do support scavenging and do not think the source is inherently a reason not to.

Were electric cars more common or something else, my example would've involved such components or such a something else.

However, I also do not wish to cause my fedi host problems, therefore I cannot advocate crime.
6:47pmWeb
Show threadティージェーグレェ6h ago
Scavenging, as you refer to it, may be OK in some circumstances.

When it comes to code; for whatever reason my mind is drifting towards the warez scene and keygens "scavenging" code from proprietary software to check to see if a key is valid or not. ;)

But, FreeBSD's jails, aren't like that. It's open source.

If it were good: Apple could have made use of it; they borrow code liberally from many other open source projects. FreeBSD is already upstream from OS X/macOS.

Maybe: jails just aren't good? Maybe, jails and incarceration and related metaphors, are intrinsically evil? I think they are. I do not work for Apple, nor am I a FreeBSD committer, but having known folks who were both of those and not evil? I kind of think that they probably intentionally avoided the jails subsystem, for good reasons.
Show threadLisPi5h ago

@teajaygrey I have somewhat more fantastical imagery come to mind at the concept, but you probably wouldn't care much about that.

When it comes to code; for whatever reason my mind is drifting towards the warez scene and keygens "scavenging" code from proprietary software to check to see if a key is valid or not. ;)

I have somewhat mixed feelings about those. They were popular here at the time, as they liberated paygated proprietary software from its paygate.

That still left it as proprietary software though, only as freeshare or shareware.

I don't think at the time it pushed out awareness of Free/Libre Software as one simply didn't hear about it at all here, so the alternative for users would mostly have been "just don't do the thing", but I'm not quite sure.

These days with the Internet and web having grown as they have, I would say it is counterproductive and potentially harmful to keep on developing them (with possible exceptions where Free/Libre options cannot exist for some reasons such as regulatory ones; which typically represents a different top-down harm instead and cracking the allowed option may not be the preferable way to fight back against it).

If it were good: Apple could have made use of it; they borrow code liberally from many other open source projects. FreeBSD is already upstream from OS X/macOS.

From the sound of it in your other technical post, they just aren't particularly amazing. They're a filesystem-specific namespace mechanism one kernel bug away from failing and less general & powerful than capsicum (which is more of a real security mechanism).

Maybe: jails just aren't good? Maybe, jails and incarceration and related metaphors, are intrinsically evil? I think they are.

I'm inclined to agree. They generally seem to be more, at best, of a way to avoid addressing problems. (Fixing society? Perish the thought.)

but having known folks who were both of those and not evil? I kind of think that they probably intentionally avoided the jails subsystem, for good reasons

Given the brainworms you describe some of the core maintainers as having, it does sound considerably less benign than name-related creative bankruptcy.