exitnode5d ago

Migrating to the EU

https://rz01.org/eu-migration/

rz01.org

Show threadpschastain5d ago

How comfortable are you guys with the fact that EU countries allow prosecutors and sometimes even police officers to issue their own search warrants without meaningful judicial review? Some EU courts will not exclude illegally obtained evidence either, so challenging the warrant later on will be pointless.

Oh, and you might be in a reasonable EU country and still be hit with an EIO from one of the unreasonable countries. This is especially concerning given recent ECJ rulings increasingly directing courts in receiving nations to blindly defer to the requesting party when dealing with EAWs, EIOs and similar.

Worth considering when hosting in the EU.

Show threadmongol5d ago
Sweden is a country like this. It is just the way it is here. It can be abused, sure. But all things considered, I much rather have my things hosted here than in the US.
Show threadpschastain5d ago
Yeah, but you also have Hungary who can decide to do things the same way they're done in Sweden and Finland.
Show threadmicrotonal5d ago
So don’t host your stuff in Hungary?
Show threadicoder5d ago
Yeah I think this basically answers this entire sub-thread
Show threadpschastain5d ago
Hungary can send an EIO to France or Germany, and the consistent trend has been to reduce the ability of executing states to review these requests.
Show threadfoldr5d ago
There’s a concerning trend of EIOs issued by Hungary being enforced in France and Germany? What would be an example of this?
Show threadpschastain5d ago

This is the best I can give you off the top of my head, but look at which countries are the most active in eurojust :) https://www.eurojust.europa.eu/ar2020/data-annex

An LLM can probably find some better links though.

Data Annex

Eurojust
Show threadfoldr5d ago
I think you might be missing the ‘concerning’ part. Which specific cases are concerning? I don’t find it inherently concerning that people can’t escape justice by crossing the Hungarian border, Bonnie and Clyde style.
Show threadApolloFortyNine5d ago
Too explicitly spell it out, op is saying here that if any one of the 27 countries in the EU decides you are breaking one of their laws, they can have 1 of the other 26 enforce an EIO.
Show threadfoldr
EIOs are subject to a dual criminality requirement. So it’s not as if arbitrary Hungarian laws can be applied in France via EIOs. And of course, we all know this is not happening, which is why we get radio silence from the people who are ‘concerned’ about this whenever specifics are requested.
Mar 23 at 2:31pmWeb
Show threadpschastain5d ago

>EIOs are subject to a dual criminality requirement

Dual criminality requirement only applies to non-Annex D crimes. Which is... not many crimes. You seem awfully confident for someone so ill-informed.

>And of course, we all know this is not happening

How would you know that it isn't happening? EIOs are not public!

Show threadfoldr5d ago

Annex D is a list of things that are crimes pretty much everywhere.

Not sure what to make of the claim that Hungary might theoretically be enforcing Hungarian law in France. It seems surprising that no-one has noticed any specific consequences of this that you can point to.

The EIO is mostly just a formalization and standardization of a bunch of ad-hoc processes that were already in place. Law enforcement agencies in different European countries do try to assist each other, on the whole.

Show threadpschastain5d ago

What you're missing is the erosion of the ability of the executing states to say things like "hey this is sketchy, we think this crime might not have happened", "hey the police department in this particular city is notoriously untrustworthy", or "hey this prosecutor is widely known in the local press to be corrupt and owns a collection of ferraris".

Now foreign authorities are trusted by default and significant parts of their reasoning are not subject to review, that's bad.