Mastodawn

A former college football player and former NFL player host a podcast episode where they invite on the former Mr. Olympia bodybuilder, and they talk about women coaches in bodybuilding.

Stop pretending that rejecting "toxic masculinity" means that all masculinity is bad.

No one is saying you can't lean into masculinity. Be as performatively masculine as you want!

Just don't use it as an excuse to hate women or trans kids.

If you don't listen to Mr. Olympia, but you do listen to dudes that hit themselves in the face with a hammer?🤡 It's not about the gym. It's you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zf-YFUMMGmI&t=90s

Africans Working Out On Instagram - Mr. Olympia Samson Dauda, Godfrey & Akbar Reacts | One54 Africa

YouTube

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varx/social 2d ago

@mekkaokereke I think the complicated bit for me is that there are certain aspects of masculinity in our culture that encourage men to hurt *themselves*.

That's the blurry part of the line for me. Like, that's clearly toxic, but also "you do you" is a good principle as well.

💯 Agreed.

Eg, in this video: Playing in the NFL, or being an Olympia level bodybuilder, are both undeniably life-shortening, self-destructive activities, that these men chose to do to themselves.🤷🏿‍♂️

When a man doesn't really understand feminism, he thinks that feminism is about changing men's behavior to make life better for women. These men frame it as, "Women think that men are the oppressors, and that women are the victims, so of course feminists want to advocate for men to have less power! But men suffer too! Society is hard for us!🤡"

But feminism is really more like, "Patriarchy is hurting all of us. In fact, it probably hurts you men more than it hurts us women. You're doing this harm to us, but you're doing it to yourselves too, in even greater amounts."

https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/115916991963645774

mekka okereke :verified: (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] And for folks thinking "Are you saying that misogyny didn't play any part in Trump's victory?"🤡 Or "Are you saying Black men can't be sexist?"🤡 Or "Are you saying that women politicians don't face sexism?"🤡 Of course not. Those aren't even reasonable questions. If you ask me to estimate the combined weight of an elephant and a mouse, I'm just going to estimate the weight of the elephant. If you then say, "Are you saying mice are massless particles like photons?"🤡 I will also say "Of course not." Sexism in Black men in a racist country, can express very differently. There are many paradoxes where white women support a pro-patriarchy position to a greater extent than Black men. That doesn't make Black men, or Black women, immune to sexism. No I'm not some kind of expert on sexism or feminism. I'm an expert on US and UK racism, and have a deep understanding of the ways that fake feminism is used to advance racism in those countries. All men should read "The Will to Change" by bell hooks. It's my go to book for men to understand feminism. No book is perfect, and I 100% am not open to discussing anyone's critiques of the book online. I'm not saying that there is nothing to critique. I'm saying that it's close to perfect as an intro feminism book for men whose initial belief is "feminism is about hating men!" Or "societal power is zero sum, so if women get more, that means men will get less!" or that think that patriarchy benefits men. Audiobook: https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAEBs9lW2KM Ebook: https://play.google.com/store/books/details/bell_hooks_The_Will_to_Change?id=G28LTQltyVAC

Hachyderm.io

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αxel simon ↙︎↙︎↙︎1d ago

@mekkaokereke @varx I broadly agree, except on the part where patriarchy would hurt men more than women.

Women and girls are clearly more targeted and openly attacked by patriarchal systems, by definition. I entirely agree that patriarchy does untold damage to men too, but the terrible part is this will so often have knock on effects on the women and girls near them, it's a double whammy.

Men don't get this double damage effect.

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mekka okereke

@axx @varx

No. Patriarchy hurts men more than women. Please read the bell hooks book I linked to.

Eg:
In the US, men will kill ~2,000 women this year. Men will kill ~20,000 other men this year. Many of these murders by men are due to patriarchy.

The damage that patriarchy does to men, is devastating. In her books, bell hooks argued that patriarchy requires men to disengage from their emotions, fear vulnerability, and adopt a "death of the self" to be seen as "real men." She called this "the single most life-threatening social disease assaulting the male body and spirit in our nation."

Men attempt to control the behavior of women to a large degree. But men control the range of acceptable behavior of other men and themselves, to an even greater degree.

For example, many men think that it is acceptable for a woman to wear a shirt of any color. But they think that there is a restricted range of shirt colors that are acceptable for men to wear. Men police themselves.

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αxel simon ↙︎↙︎↙︎1d ago

@mekkaokereke @varx it's an interesting point, i'm not convinced right not but it makes me want to read the bell hooks book you mentioned even more :)