Gwen the Trans BalrogMar 21

I think one way "male socialization" affects me as a trans woman is that I was taught to hate myself in a different way than cis women are taught to hate trans women. Cis women are taught to hate trans women as impostors, and even as unattractive, but men are supposed to hate trans women because we're not fuckable. That's not to say that there aren't a whole lot of cis men chasers, but the "problem" cis men are supposed to have with trans women is that we're men and therefore no homo or whatever.

So my dysphoria is based largely on the fact that I see myself in the mirror and see a man. If boys weren't taught that girls aren't supposed to be manly at all, I suspect that my personal dysphoria would be greatly lessened. I know that's not the case for many women, and I suspect that I would still feel a dysphoria which was a fundamental disconnect between myself and my body, but a lot of it is that I can't see the woman in my body because the man drowns it out, as it were.

Since I wasn't raised as a girl, I don't know whether trans masc folks have the same issues, but for trans femmes, it seems like it's pretty inescapable that we would internalize at least a little of that toxic male hatred of masculine women. I don't know. This is probably old ground, but it came to me the other day.

Show threadNora, of the E-gemony Mar 21

@YouShallNotPass A transmasc person I talked to had this very interesting comment I'm still thinking about today:

As a girl, I got a lot of help from women and other girls to learn how to be a woman and how to act as a woman. As a man, I ask around male friends who grew as boys, and they tell me, they don't know how to be a man, they never got taught what it means to be a man, and I get no help learning to be a man. They tell me: They only were taught how to not be a womanI'm still thinking about this.

Show threadMoriel 🏳️‍⚧️

@pinkberet @YouShallNotPass

I kind of feel like this works the other way around too. Before transition no one ever really tried to do anything to teach me how to be a man (thank the gods!) but I did get punished for being like a woman. And once I started transition I was surrounded by my trans sisters helping me learn everything I needed to know to start my life over again as a woman.

Mar 21 at 5:02pmWeb
Show threadNora, of the E-gemony Mar 21
@moriel @YouShallNotPass That was his point: That his men friends who grew up as boy couldn't help him be more like a man, because those men, as boy, weren't taught how to be men, but rather, how to not be women.

Unlike women, (AMAB or AFAB) who can get all the help they need to learn to be women.
Show threadMoriel 🏳️‍⚧️Mar 21

@pinkberet @YouShallNotPass

I got that, yes. I was just noting that it's the same, but in the other direction, for trans femmes.

I'm agreeing with what was said and repeating it back in a different way for emphasis.

Show threadNora, of the E-gemony Mar 21
@moriel @YouShallNotPass Understood! I think the reformulation ended up being still somewhat useful, did help me at least better formulate the sentiment.