Watched the manosphere doc by myself last night, just to gauge how watching it w the kid might go, and I’m glad I did because I don’t think he’s ready for it. I have criticisms, but before I go into them I want to make it clear that I loathe these asshole grifters and everything they represent. I have my own issues that basically boil down to the fact that I more or less hate men without needing any outside prompting, which is some trauma that I have had to reconcile with as the father of a boy, not wanting him to inherit my shitty baggage.

I feel like this movie does this constant little wink to the viewer, where Theroux keeps claiming he’s not trying to gotcha these guys, when he clearly is, and they rightly sense it. And I mean, they deserve it, and I think on some level they know that, and therein lies the tension of the film. But I think it would have been so much more interesting and useful, if extraordinarily difficult, to try to listen to what these broken, evil boys are saying from some more truly journalistic perspective. Because as contemptible as they are, I noticed several moments where these kids had hints of class analysis, where they clearly could see how gender is perverted and commodified, they just kinda say “fuck it” and hedonistically lean in rather than fight it

Like, they’re halfway there, why not try to engage with their flawed analysis in terms they might understand? It seems like Theroux is capable of this kind of journalism, but I suppose this wouldn’t lend itself to the kind of emotionally-leading bombast of a Netflix documentary
I suppose it’s also because this doc is clearly aimed at a liberal status quo audience, where nobody wants the takeaway to actually be “smash the system”
@stooge just wanna also add that I've seen some of these views in this doc come out in fullchested statements as young as grade 7. So that means they are seeing it way before that. I guarantee these kids parents have no idea that's what they are being fed.
@choppersnsnacks Yeah, my kid’s in grade six and some of his friends at school are definitely on this tip. I think at least in some cases it comes from the parents being Charlie Kirk/Trump/Rogan types, which I imagine is one of the pipelines… but this is kinda my point - I’m not suggesting that engaging with the boys in this documentary would be worthwhile as some kind of dialectical exchange, I just think he could have done a much better job of exposing their cognitive dissonances and the processes by which they got there. There were definitely a couple moments where these kids were speaking genuinely about how they arrived at these views that he did not engage with, it drove me crazy. I get what you’re saying about not debating fascists, but I think in that case we at least sort of understand the algorithm that gets them there. I think if the idea is to prevent kids from getting sucked into this world, he squandered an opportunity to better understand it, but maybe I’m just being horribly naive
@stooge I don't think (and kinda know) that parents ideology isn't the primary way these kids are getting to the videos. Their parents don't even know these men exist. It's starts from just watching streamers and play thrus of games. Then the algorithm starts recommending interviews of those streamers. Who also interviewed the underlings of these guys and it just cycles thru until they are watching it because their favorite streamer was interviewed six degrees of separation. It's the same way folks of our generation have been led down the joe Rogan pipeline. I can probably go four clicks on recommended videos on any of the motorcycle or car videos I've watched to get to some very fucked up online talk show bullshit, it's not that hard.
I think we are on the same page though at the end of the day, but that's because we are both coming from the same men are bullshit background. But that's an outlier position amongst "men"
@choppersnsnacks My Youtube algorithm is always trying to veer me into ahistorical conspiracy junk because I’ve shown an interest in meditation and spirituality. I’m not suggesting that you and I are immune to propaganda, but if you’re gonna tumble down one of these rabbit holes you’ve first gotta be open to their premises, and that seems like a point of intervention to me. Fuck, now I kinda wonder if I should watch this movie with my kid after all, but it’s gonna be fucking traumatic ugh