Nekko
Morten LinderudPeople are rightfully angry at age verification laws.
That doesn't justify any harassment campaigns towards *any* FOSS developers, maintainers nor contributors. Turn that anger towards something productive.
Get a grip people, holy shit.
FOSS Dev
Aria <3 
@Foxboron FOSS developers that have a choice and choose to side with fascists are fair game though.
Dehumanizing people this way to justify your hate and vitrol does not make you any better then them.
@Foxboron If you call treating fascist collaborators as who they are "dehumanization" then so be it.
This is ridiculous. Ploink.
Tuzu@ariarhythmic @Foxboron May I ask what reasonable choice do they have? For example how should you deal with the Colorado and California age api laws? It would be very difficult to not distribute your OS to these states specifically without violating the GPL.
โ๏ธkarolherbstโ๏ธ@Foxboron I'd be more open to the overall criticism if the arguments were more substantial than "they worked for Red Hat/IBM in the past" ๐
Like that's all you got? If we'd go by that, we would have to trash almost the entire FOSS ecosystem.
And of course harassing and sending people death threats over ties to Red Hat or IBM is such a toxic part of this FOSS community and almost nobody says anything against it anyway. Like.. mention "dude is bad because of RH" and you get one million likes.
Jesus Michaล "Le Sigh" ๐ (he)@Foxboron, well, I suppose i'm missing some context here, but it really sounds like you are defending people who aren't just "forced" to implement something, but who are doing that wilfully while having openly expressed opinions largely in agreement with these laws.
In other words, it sounds like another case of "Don't be angry at nazis, they're people too. Just kiss their feet and hope they don't decide that you don't deserve to live the next week. Unless they already believe that, and are just waiting for a good excuse to have you executed."
Do you think harassment of FOSS maintainers, developer and contributors is fine?
Where harassment means writing dossiers/doxxing them or sending death threats?
X_Cli โ@Foxboron
I believe you get these reactions because harassment is a vague term. Just being many people strongly but respectfully disagreeing can be considered harassment. Many people feel entitled to voice their disagreement with a FLOOS maintainer. That's the equivalent of a protest. If by harassment, you meant the above (doxxing, death threats...), I am pretty sure almost everybody would agree with you.
Or I am wrong โบ๏ธ
@mgorny
I believe you get these reactions because harassment is a vague term. Just being many people strongly but respectfully disagreeing can be considered harassment. Many people feel entitled to voice their disagreement with a FLOOS maintainer. That's the equivalent of a protest. If by harassment, you meant the above (doxxing, death threats...), I am pretty sure almost everybody would agree with you.
Or I am wrong โบ๏ธ
@mgorny
Adrien Plazas
Patrycja ๐ V43
Kraftwerk-Das Model Collapse@mgorny there was a somewhat weird hit piece: https://www.sambent.com/the-engineer-who-tried-to-put-age-verification-into-linux-5/
I do think it's good and necessary to push back very hard against complying in advance with surveillance state laws, but the vibes here felt a bit off.
The Engineer Who Tried to Put Age Verification Into Linux
Dylan, useful idiot with commit access, pushed age verification PRs to systemd, Ubuntu & Arch, got 2 Microslop employees to merge it, called it 'hilariously pointless' in the PR itself, then watched Lennart personally block the revert. Unpaid compliance simp.
Kallisti100% agree.
Sure, there's zero justification for complying in advance instead of doing the reasonable thing and just... not implementing this bullshit.
But that doesn't justify any personal attacks, harassment and threats against the people.
Discontent can be expressed peacefully.
justsoup 
@Foxboron People make bad decisions all the time, but for some reason FOSS users like to strawman devs into the devil over them. Nobody is faultless.
Edit: I do also see the irony of me strawmanning general FOSS users as reactionary. I mostly just mean the wider "community". At least, the vocal portion.
Andrea (Drea) Tamar Pinski@Foxboron yes and no. You can be angry with "foss" (I put it in quotes as the things they are implementing are anti foss ideals) developer for implementing stuff that maybe should not be implemented just yet.
YourShadowDani@Foxboron I'd agree with you if they weren't complying ahead of time. Maybe developers should consider not being complicit with growing fascism?
Do you think harassment of FOSS maintainers, developer and contributors is fine?
Where harassment means writing dossiers/doxxing them or sending death threats?
Pomax@Foxboron what if we turn the anger into calling this out in the issue trackers? Which is what folks did. Then the issue tracker got locked down.
Your toot is pulling double duty as both "don't harass/doxx people" which, yes, obviously, don't fucking harass individuals. Good call-out.
But at the same time it *also* reads as then saying "don't complain to FOSS maintainers" which, no, you absolutely should. Everyone should complain loud and publicly about nonsense like what systemd just pulled.
Martin Owens 
wtf right do i have to complain at systemd? I'm not going to compel their labour just because they've made bad calls.
Problem is; our social contract is extremely thin and devs owe users NOTHING. Unless those users are funders or have some actual relationship.
The amount of self righteous entitlement going around is incredibly obnoxious and the wrong way to organise for this problem.
Osmose@doctormo @TheRealPomax @Foxboron the user outrage at this is a signal that the social contract is thicker than you suggest
The outrage suggests users would dearly like the social contract to be more robust.
And yet it remains wafer thin.
If it wasn't thus, users would simply pull their funding. Or cancel their Christmas cards. Stop sending sausages through the post to the developer team. Or perhaps stop making fun little cartoons vignettes of the project mascot.
Yes it is disempowering. And annoying. But real change comes through relationships that are healthy and capable of handling the critique.
@TheRealPomax
*complaining* doesn't help anyone.
Some projects will need to comply with this law, if you show up and tell them "don't do that" you are just asking a project to break the law on your behalf.
Does this apply to systemd? No, it's a component. But what then? Do we just tell the projects that *need* to comply to "get lost"?
Turning your anger towards the FOSS maintainers that are at the end of the stick is unproductive.
txtx ๐ช๐บ@Foxboron Thank you for saying this.
I've unfollowed a few people today. It's ridiculous.
People keep going on about freedom of expression in FOSS just as they mob and coerce a guy who writes code they don't agree with. What kind of bullshit freedom of expression is this.