Irenes (many)2d ago

when Intel introduced a cpuid instruction, around 1998 or so

there was a debate on the Linux kernel mailing list as to whether Linux should provide a way to call that instruction

you know, because of its potential uses for surveillance and how that was sharply at odds with the idea of computers being owned by their users

Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago
the resolution, at least for a while, was that Linux would implement an interface for programs to invoke the instruction, but would also add an interface that allows the user to instruct the kernel to lie and return a user-specified identifier instead
Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago
that was a reasonable approach, though it was only possible because cpuid did not have the force of law. that's how you resist surveillance through technology, when you have to.
Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago
we haven't followed up on it since then. we kind of suspect everyone forgot about cpui and some DRM patch in the 2010s quietly made it a "real" surveillance feature and nobody noticed, but ... who knows, you know?
Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago

at any rate, it's really startling to us to see people complying in advance with this current wave of surveillance stuff

many of them are people we have ideological differences with, but we would have at least hoped that libertarians (in the modern, US-centric sense, not the historical one) would understand when someone is seeking to control them, and resist it

Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago

like, if you're not based in California, and are willing to say "people in California are prohibited from using this", this current law does not apply to you

and that would be the correct form of resistance, for the record

Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago
the only reason anybody disagrees is that they're part of an organization that decided to make itself dependent on money, and losing money on a matter of principle feels impossible and unacceptable
Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago
this birth date stuff is ... you all understand that once your hands are in the handcuffs, the cuffs tighten, right? don't do this thing of finding specific ways the law is better than some alternatives and convincing yourself it'll be fine. people are fooling themselves on that count.
Show threadENIGMATICO  2d ago
@ireneista The birthdate thing doesn't worry me because it's made just to please the law enforcement at these places. You can bypass it very easily and you don't need to know anything about computers to do so. You can straight up lie about it and they can't do anything about it.

What bothers me is that this is clearly in preparation to more follow-ups where they request more data later, like also requiring your ID or some sort of certificate that can be back tracked to you.

But nobody is doing anything to stop it so yeah, that's going to happen. The kids sure are going to be very protected...
Show threadIrenes (many)

@enigmatico we think you perhaps aren't considering it in the full context of how organizations are complying and how those systems will interoperate with each other, but we understand your point

the practical reality is that the best opportunity to oppose oppression is when it is NEW, because it is far more difficult to galvanize public action around something that feels like a tiny incremental change

Mar 19 at 9:30pmWeb
Show threadENIGMATICO  2d ago
@ireneista Yes, but if they don't comply then they get sued and get themselves in legal trouble. And that's a lawsuit they can not win, which would get them into a lot of financial trouble and might even get them to run out of business. I can understand if they fear that and decide to place a half-assed age verification check rather than have to face legal action against them.

The alternative would be to stop being "free" and disallow using their distro in these places, but we all know age verification is coming globally because it seems like it is the trend now among political parties worldwide. They'd run out of countries where it is allowed to use their software.

If you want to fight then the best way to fight it is by making it so that it's going to be more problematic to the governments to implant those measures than it is to not do so, until they give up. How do you do that? I'll leave that to your imagination.
Show threadIrenes (many)2d ago
@enigmatico these organizations chose to structure themselves in ways which rely on influx of money. that's why they're unwilling to pull out of California, and why they need to be understood as closer to industry than to civil society. that really is what it comes down to.
Show threadLisPi2d ago
@enigmatico @ireneista > The alternative would be to stop being "free" and disallow using their distro in these places, but we all know age verification is coming globally because it seems like it is the trend now among political parties worldwide.

They don't have to, they can just recommend against and tell the user they're taking their non-compliance with their local laws at their own risk.

Freedom 0 includes ignoring stupid laws.